Remade Marx 60mm Foreign Legion we are getting various reports that Marx Foreign Legion are be produced. These figures are not from the original Marx molds but newly made molds. Sources are pointing that they are coming from Mexico. They were done by the same company that did the Arabs.
At this this time we do not know what poses are in the set. We also do not know the figure configuration. As you will remember the remade Marx 60mm Arabs had two Arabs standing firing rifle. Marx had one of these figures in their configuration. Likewise we do not know what color or colors will be done.
As we get more word on these figures we will post updates here.
Finally I have created a new word for this new aspect of the hobby remade. The definition of remade is a figure copied by making a new mold. This is different where old molds are reused by another company. An argument can call these piracies. I will leave that up for discussion.
Right now in this group of remades I will put M.S. Oliver’s falling horse rider. Also we will included the Marx 60mm Arabs that were done in Mexico.
I have created this new term as some people were upset with my the use of the word recast with the Arabs. For the good of the hobby I have this new term. My feelings on the word recast stay the same and I will use the word reissue.
I like the idea of the name “remake” because that accurately describes what was done. I don’t know that one can say it’s a “piracy” issue (though it might apply in some cases). I think you would have to answer several questions before you could say a figure or figures were pirated:
1) Do the original molds still exist?
2) Is the original designer or owner of the design or copyright/patent still alive? Or does anyone else still claim rights to the figure’s design?
3) Have the rights to the design of the figure expired or passed into public domain?
One might argue the ethics of taking an old set of figures like the Marx Arabs and copying them, but the Louis Marx Company is defunct, Louis has been gone for many, many years, evidently the molds are lost or destroyed, so the person who copied the figures actually did a favor to the hobby (and maybe Louis Marx’s legacy) by copying the figures and making them available to folks who might otherwise not be able to obtain them – or be able to afford the prices being asked for originals.
Now, if original molds WERE available and someone owned them or the rights I think we are talking an entirely different matter. What say you all?
In answer to your questions. 1 the molds exist for the 60mm figures most are in Hong Kong with some exceptions. Other molds are scattered around the world. 2 and 3 the copyrights are an open question. first figures were not copyrighted in early days as you could not copyright a human being. There are ways around that for example on the original GI Joe there is a toenail that is wrong so they could copyright the figure. Horowitz who owns the rights to Marx has gotten legal battles including on the Johnny West series. I am not an expert and someone with knowledge on licensing and copyright would have to consulted.
I wish someone would do the same for the old Ft Apache “cavalry” figures, though it seems there are plenty left from when Marx was going strong. I would love to seem some of the “long coat” riders available at a reasonable price. New issues wouldn’t cause so much guilt to paint.
Wayne,
There are remakes of the 60mm cavalry. I have some in fact. ATS usually sells them. They are the same size of course no short swords and they are a hard plastic done in a flat dark blue. I assume they were done by creating a new mold using an existing figure. I have had quite a few over the years and only saw one of the riding poses, the firing a pistol one.
The cavalry were done by Rado. Mike Ellis of Marksmen imported in a load of the figures from Rado, who has the Marx molds. These were the molds that were used for the Marx Warriors of the World Series. One of them were the 7th cavalry. I am surprise if ATS still has any as they were first to sell out. Mike was unable to reorder and the company is very difficult to deal with.
He’s still offering them for sale on his site. I would assume he still has some.
I originally bought my first set from Bill Nace at Indy at least 10 years ago.
I took a look at his site and they are the Rado figures which are from the original molds.
I was quite impressed with the “remake/copies” of the Marx Arabs. I received 5 sets from Erwin Sell and have ordered 2 more sets from CTS (in a new color I wanted which Erwin decided not to carry). The new Arab figures were excellently copied from the originals, differing only in that they were a tiny bit smaller than the originals, and in a slightly less supple plastic. The plastic was still very high quality, in my opinion, and was not breakable or delicate in the least.
The new configuration of poses was actually superior to that of the original Marx sets, in that 2 of the desirable Arab shooting poses were included, rather than just 1.
I’m now looking forward to the Legionnaire remake/copies, hopefully soon.
At this weekend’s Michigan Toy Soldier Show, I was able to purchase from two separate dealers a total of 14 original Marx Arabs, including 3 of the shooting poses and 4 of the mounted poses, for $15.00 per figure. That was the asking price of both Bill Nace and Larry Lovely. Since that price was below the more usual price of $20 – $25 per figure, I was happy.
The Legionnaire poses, while much less expensive, are still steep at what I see as an “average” price of $8.00 per figure.
So the Legionnaire remake/copies will be welcome, since the Mexican source ends up being between $2.50 – $3.00 per figure U.S. retail, when purchased in a 10-piece mold shot.
And incidently, for those interested in this kind of stuff, here’s how the Michigan Toy Soldier Show, sponsored by Joseph Saine went:
1. Usual attendees Bill Murphy, John Stengel, and Rick Eber did not come out this year, which was a loss to the show.
2. There nevertheless was a pretty good dealer attendance of about 35 – 40 dealers, including Allan Ford and Rick Keller.
3. Nevertheless, the decline of general public/collector attendance continued, with only about a dozen attendees present and coming through the gate when the show opened at 10:00 AM. I myself was present as a “dealer’s helper” from 6:30 AM through the show opening at 10:00 AM, and left a few minutes after the show opened, having seen everything and purchased everything I wanted or could afford. But I heard from those who remained that attendance never got any better.
4. I’m sure this poor attendance, which has been like this for the past three years, is the reason people from the East coast like Murphy, Stengel, and Eber decided not to attend this year. It’s not a very hopeful harbinger for our future shows.
Sorry to hear the show was not better attended. That few people is a disaster in my book. The price on the Arabs you bought were below what I was selling them the last time I had them. I know some FFL were sold on the East Coast for $5.00 each.
I always notice the FFL sale x less.
However resently I also noticed an increase of then x sale very abundant at show and ebay, as well w arabs.
The resent recast mexican made figures may had prompted a reducing in price as well…some already assuming the FFL will be recast too…
My thoughts…
Yeah I wondered why Joe Saine called me and offered me a free table if I would go to the show. Makes me glad I didn’t go.
Did you go the auction on Saturday? How did that go?
I should have mentioned that Ron Barzso and his wife also came out from Chicago, and set up on some tables.
Yes, I attended the auction as well. There were about 35 or so people in attendance, all of whom seemed to bid on something at one time or another. But I thought the bidding was less intense than in years past, and prices seemed to be lower than usual. A couple of times, Joe Saine, as auctioneer, seemed slightly put out that bidding was not heavier.
Of course, I, as a bidder, was quite content with less intense bidding, and got several things I wanted at what I thought were fairly low prices.
Rick Keller was the winner of the boxed Ben Hur Series 5000 playset, which was one of 12 boxed Marx playsets at the auction, a few in MIB condition. The Ben Hur set didn’t have absolutely every single part, but was very full and had all 8 chariots, and was in a pretty good box. Keller’s winning bid was $700.00, plus 10% auctioneer fee. Allan Ford was the winner of 4 of the boxed Marx playsets.
Permit me to make one correction to my original post: The Marx Arabs I got were from Larry Lovely, and another dealer set up right next to Bill Nace —- not Bill Nace himself, from whom I got something else.
Do you mean Todd Nace? Bill died some time ago. Todd is Bills son.
Apparently I do. But having spoken to him in Indiana, when I saw him at the Michigan Show, I said, “You’re Bill Nace, right?”. To which he responded, “Yea, nice to see you again.” Maybe he just didn’t feel like quibbling over the exactness of a name, or maybe just didn’t quite catch the “Bill” in my question. But thanks for the correction; I’m sure you’re right.
Maybe, I just remember because the first one I ever bought from at a Toy Soldier show was Bill Nace and he helped me close a deal on these Lido Germans and Japanese I was trying to sell. He may thought you said Bill Nace’s son, for sure his name is Todd.
Thanks for the info; always benefit from coming to this site.
I don’t know if you ever met Bill, I think he was only around for two years after I got into the hobby. His room was loaded with stuff and he sat in a chair by the window chain smoking cigarettes and drinking pop. Never saw him get out of the chair. Nice friendly guy.
Bill Nace was a good guy. He always had great stuff.
My son called his room “the smoker” as you could literally see smoke billowing out into the hallway. If you want to see friendly Bill in action, get a copy of Rusty’s first VHS “Playset Video Collector Goes to OTSN.” It’s a documentary of room trading back in the day. Glorious memories!
Yes, Bill was a friendly guy who was around for a long time. He is missed.
Yeah is was smokey in his room and there was always a cast of characters on hand too. The good old days.
I sat and talked to Bill Nace and Bill Kipper for a couple of hours one year at OTSN. They had hilarious stories about the Marx landfill digs. Both Bills were great.
Haven’t heard from Bill Kipper in years. Is he still around?
Yes
Don’t know Bill Kipper. Did anyone know Bill Bacarella? He died a number of years ago, I heard he was a collector, I graduated from High School with him. Unfortunately he died before I got to renew my acquaintance.
Bill Kipper is still active on EBay. He goes by the ID of bktoys. He has a couple of Marx playsets up for bid right now. He’s not nearly as active as he used to be in the toy soldier field. I went to his house in the early 2000’s a few times. He had a garage that was filled with stuff from the Marx landfills. It was amazing. I got a lot of figures from him that were in odd colors, not from being buried, but actual colors they tested out I guess. There were black 54mm Indians, purplish gray 54mm pioneers/frontiersmen, and steel blue Germans, for example. He even had some of the Pirate/Treasure Cove accessories in yellow. You could take hours to go through it all.
Tim, thanks for update. Glad he’s still around. Good guy.
Hmmm, I’ve seen black 54mm Indians from the dump, but they formerly yellow, these were actually molded in black? Cool.
I have some first edition 60mm revised pose pioneers I figure must be from the dump, they are now a motled gray and they are really a stiff plastic now. I assume that previous to sitting in the West Virginia clay for 50+ years they were soft vinyl.
hi Paul
Just wanted to let everyone know that Classic Toy Soldiers will have the remade FFL hopefully by the end of next week.Two colors light blue and tan.There will be 10 figures per set – 8 different with duplicates of the standing firing rifle and marching.Three original poses are not included, they are the two character figures and no officer pointing holding the binoculars.Also will have another new Arab color- red.
We are working on other remade sets for the future too, I will keep your readers informed as they become close to being done. I think we have all learned to not speak of a new release until it is in hand, too many things can go wrong that are out of your control and some people can’t seem to accept that.
Also as soon as I have a definite delivery date I’ll send some photos of our new North Koreans.
Later
Jim
Excellent color choices for the new FFL.
As for the North Koreans, are you still hopeful they will be available by the time of the Chicago Show? In any event, I’m looking forward to the photos.
Jim
Thanks for the update. I agree you picked two great colors. The other remade sets will be great additions I am sure. I know everyone is looking for your North Koreans.
Interested to see what else you will have remade. Are they all going to be Marx figures? I am greatly looking forward to the North Koreans. I know they will be great.
BOBBYGMOORE
Too bad, I kind of liked the Capt. Gallant figure. Well detailed and unlike the others would fit in with Legionnaires during WW2 and Algerian War.
The topic of what should be remade in Plastic Toy Soldiers would be very interesting.
Here is my list:
1. All Marx character figures.
2. Marx Germans
3. Auburn G.I’s
4 Airfix Italians
5. Herald Trojans
6. Marx 2nd series G.I’s
Can’t think of more right now.
What about…
1. Marx 54mm sailors
2. Marx Longcoat US cavalry bugler and standard rider
3. Auburn cowboys, pioneers, and Indians
4. Atlantic Ancients (if moulds are not lost)
5. Ideal Battle Action figures, accessories, and vehicles (or even platform bases)
6. AndyGard cowboys and Indians
Good choices. I remembered the Ideal Battle Action after I posted. Marx Naval is another good choice although they lack action I would still want them
Character figures are a good idea; specifically:
Johnny Ringo
4 Gunsmoke Characters
2 Rifleman Characters (I can live without 3 inch gun)
2 Wagon Train Characters
Jim Hardie
Got a an unopened bag of Andy Gard Cowboys and Indians, you can have for $150.00. There’s at least 20 figures in it.
Revised pose pioneers both first and second edition. ( only two poses)
Glad these guys are being done and the colors are good. Too bad about the other poses, though.
In my opinion…
The poses in recast are Ok to me and best choices . The two non remade poses are from the TV series(two are characters) wile the third not remade ,officer pointing is not use but one to me possible made as main command at post from the TV series.
Rest of 8 FFL figures were done in not accord era with TV series uniforms(1950’s) and depict the 1877-1939 era uniforms(some with out long coat ).I do not know if this disparate was done in purpose or MARX original intended to do another playset generic x FFL as Marx sets usually are 8 poses in the 60 mm series with an extra main general or else also done in many cases on the WOW series. Then decide create three characters after to do the CG playset!!??
In general the MARX FFL has very poor selection of action poses versus Arabs odd 7 or 8 poses set in more combative/moving poses
Out of the 8 FFL generic soldiers poses ,one is marching, other saluting in line formation, other in stand at easy guard (with non field uniform).,another looks like giving a hug with rifle in one hand and other arm with full open hand ,officer with revolver is waving pointing it to his side and look forward(not shooting).Looks like is giving a training or else..
The only real action poses are ,mounted(With non field uniform) and two firing poses, standing and prone(w not field uniform)
For my personal like the set is a fort /camp training set and a waste of poses that could had well be made x action if x generic …this is my critique NOW personal use observation please.
But back in time it was done to match the film scenes(with very few main battles portrayed).So that is why were done as that maybe!!??
Captain G and boy=mascot are being sold already all over place x low price on eBay/else
I sold two team/pairs already from my collection no long ago.
Now I have one boy and three marching listed x good price too…
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARX-FFL-ARABS-LEGIONARIES-LOT-VINTAGE-GREAT-CONDITION-/322206664914?ssPageName=STRK:MESCX:IT
best…