CTS Cavalry Figure Prototypes is one example of a company’s future plans that did not come about. There are many reasons a project do not come fruition. Some of the reasons can be the market changes or demand is not there.
CTS Cavalry Figure Prototypes The Reason Not made
As reported in previous post from Jim McGough there were several factors the cavalry project did not work. Here is Jim’s original response:
CTS Cavalry Figure Prototypes Jim’s Original Response
Thanks to all for all the suggestions and well wishes! We will move ahead.
A note on our 7th cavalry figures years ago. We did sculpt full sets of troopers and horses with every intention of producing them.
At that time because we had complained to our China Co. about previous loss of some detail in a set of figures, they advised us to make larger sculpts then pantograph them down to the size we wanted, so that is what we did. Well it didn’t work the detail loss was even greater .Shortly after Nick came out with his superb plains cavalry so we didn’t go back into the project.
Between the sculpting and other expenses we were out about $8.000.00- I have a beautiful set of 3 1/2-4″ cavalry and horses for sale if anyone is interested!
This is a perfect example of the kind of money involved in making high pressure injection mold figures. As all of us that do this would agree it is a labor ( and investment) of love not profit.
Jim McGough
CTS Cavalry Figure Prototypes A look at the Figures
The proposed set had three different horse poses. One of the horse poses was to be laying horse for a prone cavalry man to firing from behind.
This pose shows the underside of the cavalry prone firing the rifle.
These two photos show the three mounted poses. Those poses are rifle at the side. bugler and shooting pistol at the side. Jim has not given any indication how many poses were planned.
The final poses are comparison of the CTS Cavalry with the TSSD mounted figures.
We appreciate Jim McGough sharing these photos with us.
Pretty nice looking, it’s a shame they didn’t shrink down to the 54mm – 60mm size.
Oh yeah, I really like the prone firing pose.
Nice fine figures.I too like most the prone pose.
The figures uniforms look simple however more accurate in field versus some later production in my opinion.So these CTS arebetter in historical accuracy.
The horses detail are nice but poses look a bit less combative or not in the run least.
My thoughts.
Best
They look more “Marx” inspired than TSSD and Paragon. I like them and the pose firing over the horse would fit right in a Custer’s last Stand playset.
Curious as to how many of the lying down horse and shooter you would need?
Two maybe? Three at most?
The other three poses are Airfix/Marx “tributes” to my eye and are nothing new.
And once again, the horses are baseless, which means they are unstable and will tumble over just like the Mexican cavalry.
Smart business move not producing these. I don’t think that they would sell enough to recoup your investment. Just my opinion.
Why does any company that produces mounted figure always have to have a bugler?
Gary, Gary, Gary —- because in every U.S. cavalry charge that I ever saw in the movies, the charge was accompanied with the rousing sounds of a bugle!
And now that I’ve explained that, Gary, I want you to know that you’ve inspired me to show up to OTSN on Thursday morning this year, instead of my customary Friday morning. The reason is that last year, even though I got to Steve Weston’s and John Stengel’s rooms bright and early Friday morning, each of them was already out, as a result of Thursday sales, of some of their stuff they had in just limited quantities. So I’m taking a page from your book.
I trust you are going to be there as well. And if you will kindly once again send me your cell phone # (through email via Stad if you wish), this year I will not fail to link up with you, probably by making a specific time-appointment to meet with you in the room of Ed Borris and Mike Kutnick, which is usually a convenient central location for things.
Sure meet at my room , hopefully in a new location this year. I got the beer and will have all the TSSD sets 1 thru 28 as well as their foam. ALso plenty of conversions including the ones shown in issue #219 of Toy Soldier and Model Figures magazine.
Standard fare, bugler, flagbearer/ guidon bearer, guy waving sword. I never cared for mounted figures anyway.
All the same, a loss to the hobby. The prone firing figures would have worked for several scenarios – particularly the Little Big Horn (where you’d need a LOT of them for Reno Ridge and some for “Last Stand Hill” I’d imagine.
As far as flag/guidon bearers and buglers go – you pretty much have to have at least one of each for any cavalry scenario (as well as officers) and by the time you include them in a set you really end up with two many by the time you buy a few sets. But it has been a necessary evil in the hobby.
I like HaT’s solution that has worked well in 1/72 scale and I imagine would transfer well to the larger scale; they had one pose on each sprue (or set, maybe) that had changeable arms. There’s a peg on the body and two or three arms holding a bugle, a guidon or flag (depending), or a sword or pistol. Each arm had a hole that fit the peg on the body. This way you don’t have “wasted’ figures (five or six buglers or guidon bearers); the arms can also be adjusted to give multiple poses on the same figure. The extra arms are also great for conversions, too.
I think I would have definitely invested in at least a couple bags of these guys to fill out my cavalry and add variety.
I meant TOO many. Apologies.
Also, the recent releases by TSSD and Paragon seem to be headed in the switchable parts direction anyway.
I hate to give props, but Conte actually had some interchangable arms in his Alamo defenders. The surgeon ,Travis and one of his NOGS to name a few. There may have been earlier figures that had these different options, but Conte is the earliest that I can remember. Of course none of them were flag.guidon bearers.
I think Replicants were also a pioneer with interchangeable parts, too; heads, arms, etc..
Yes, I remember those, too – there was the surgeon figure in the “Zulu” sets (which he later also used for his “Alamo”); he also had several plug-in hands and arms in his Vikings and Saxons – I had some problems with some of the fits on those guys – keeping them in place. I guess what I was talking about was HaT’s idea (particularly in their cavalry sets) of solving the bugler and guidon bearer.
Just to clarify the pictured cavalry are in 1/32nd scale not 4″. We made these after rejecting the idea of doing sculpts in 2 up size. Originally we had 8 foot and 6 mounted with horses.
Jim
CTS
Thanks for the update Jim
Didn’t CTS make some 1/32 WW2 Marines prototypes that were never put into production? I think I remember seeing them years ago for sale on E-bay.
BOBBYGMOORE
I think the poses depicted are just samples and nothing to what would be end line.
But x every company a bugler and a company banner is needed least.
Often two buglers as it is the only
Comunication main way x every order.Specially in the run.
Prone poses were done by BMC too and x many battles not only 7cavalry last action days only the main tactic of cavalry shooting were didmount get in gorund first line,second line=kneeling and fire wile third party/line of platoon or unit retain and hold rest horses to mount back and keep either advancing or rereating.
So in any indian war cavalry scenerarios the dismounted probe pose was used a lot and is well documented.In hill terrain often same as help x more cover wile aiming and shooting.
However was less suitable x standard army fight combat.
But well used in indian rapid hit and run firefight.
When supply caravan were attacked soldiers or any take cover prone too below wagon to shoot and fire from bellow better conciled position.
So in a battlr scene I will use no less 10 to 15 of them
And if have 50 soldiers not less 4 bugglers.
That is by manuals,books and of course some movies too.
Any hows is a personal choice to like it or not use of course.
My thoughts..
To Jim M. If the horses you are looking to sell are 54mm, I’m interested. What a great set that isn’t going to be made.