Wagon Train Movie Viewer is another of one of Bill Nevins’s finds at a flea market. The piece is from the years when Ward Bond and Robert Horton. Ward Bond was on the on the show for four seasons before dying of a Heart Attack at the age of 57. Robert Horton continued on the show to season six. He died in March, 2016 at the age of 90.
Wagon Train Movie Viewer
Here is the front of the card and the date on it is 1960.
The back of the card showing how to watch the film. The card shows it was made by the Acme Toy Corporation. Acme Toy did various toys including dolls, vehicles and rack toys like the one above.
Here is the movie viewer with the two films of Wagon Train. Acme Toy did viewers of other television shows such as Ben Casey, Daniel Boone and Bullwinkle. These viewers were from the 1960’s. they may have done earlier viewers as I found listing for films of the comic strip Dick Tracy and Smiling Jack.
Bill Nevins final photo shows the Marx character figures of Major Seth Adams and Flint McCullough from the Marx Wagon Train Playset. The prices has escalate on these playsets especially for the covered wagons. The wagons were done in different colors and have been getting high prices. We heard one dealer who was at the Gettysburg Toy soldier show had nine wagons for sale and he did not go home with one. Even parts of the covered wagons can go for high prices. As I write someone has up a yellow hitch for the wagon. It is split on one side. They want $59.99.
The character figure come up from time to time. Seth Adams is the harder of the two to find.
I have an article coming up very shortly of the Plasty Chuck Wagon which you find interesting because the amount of accessories it has.
There was a large find of these some years back at the old Marx dump grounds digs. I paid $100 for a pair.
I got mine when I bought a small collection I saw in the paper. that was 30 years ago.
Seth should be harder to find as he was not included in the Wagon Train sets after his death, a few years ago Craig Remington opened a sealed set at OTSN and it came with Flint only. Back in the not too distant past Rich Keller had a number of Flints he was selling from a dump find, he didn’t seem to have any Seth’s.
Thanks I will correct it.
Ahoy there. Last year at an out door flee market ,I picked up a flint figure. He is done in a light gray color. Is this a repro or just a fluke? He was in mint condition so I paid the 5.oo asking price. Anyone have any info or thoughts. Thanks, lester
I have learned through experience that “unusual to find in light gray” figures are really cream figures that developed this gray “patina” from sitting underground at the famous “Marx dump”. Watch out for listings with “rare Marx factory test shot, sample, etc. in rare and unusual light gray.” Plus who knows what potential health hazards you are being exposed to, at no extra charge, from stuff that’s been sitting in a landfill next to who knows what for who knows how long?? Watch out for pale gray color and sometimes rust marks, especially in little cracks & crevices in the figure that are hard to brush off.
Agreed
He could be one of those dump finds, I’d bet he’s real and not a re-cast. I have a couple in gray. Cream figures had a tendency to turn gray after years underground at the dump. The dump did strange things to different colors, some of the 54mm Indians turned black. I don’t know for certain if any original Flints were cast in gray. I wouldn’t doubt it though.
I got both figures at the same flea market last year for less than 10 bucks in a group lot.
All I ever find at flea markets is Honk Kong knockoffs that they want a kidney and a cornea as the asking price.
If it was the right figure… I know some who would go for it. Just look at ebay- good thing they don’t trade in REAL body parts.
I would not get rid of a figure because it was from a landfill. I doubt there’s anything that’ll hurt your health. Clean it carefully, dry it and if it will make you feel better, 2 coats of matt top coat lacquer and you’re safe. 3 or 4 coats, if you want. It won’t change the look of the figure and it’ll help protect it.
I know if you get dump figures from Rick Keller, he does wash them first. Granted they are not squeaky clean, but not as cruddy as some figures you see from other dealers that weren’t in dump. Some guys have figures that are so dirty I don’t even want to touch them. I personally wash all used figures I get anyway.
My understanding is that the Marx “dump” was not a typical garbage dump, but more like a plastic landfill. The documentary that I saw seemed to imply that they basically dumped truckloads of unwanted figures and simply covered them over with a layer of sticky clay, indigenous to the region. If that’s the case, the risk may be there, but about the same as digging something up in your backyard.
Frankly, I feel safer handling a scrubbed Marx figure than a bag of figures from China (I try not to think about it).
Oh, and if anyone does not want their toxic Marx character figures, I will perform a service in which I remove the toxic figure from your collection (I’ll wear a hazmat suit if you like) and I will store said toxic figure safely in my collection.
Would you pay MINT prices for the landfill figures like they were new out of bags?
“Mint prices” is a relative term. I wouldn’t pay current mint prices if it still smelled like the Glen Dale factory. I was only referring to those who deem them “unsafe.” Worth the price? That’s subjective.
When I have gotten landfill figures in the past, I have listed them as landfill figures in my description. I am a very hard grade and will usually grade figured no higher than excellent unless the are still in the original packaging. Most figures I have sold are very good. Paint figures I will give an estimate of paint loss.
I also have a gray (I assumed from the dump) Wyatt Earp figure – I prefer the gray, as it fits my other gray cowboys. I also have some original (formerly cream) gray wagon horses. They’re great. One time, at OTSN, someone had a giant bucket/small garbage can of Marx dump GI’s – He gave me an offer for the entire bunch. The color was indeed unique, but just a bit too off for me, so I passed. By the end of the day somebody cleaned him out. I’ve yet to see them on Ebay.
One problem with the landfill figures is the red clay is hard to take off.
You know what my issue is Stad; figure is listed on eBay as “Excellent, Near Mint, etc.”, picture looks good. You write seller, “ANY problems at all???”. “Nope! Figure looks great to me. Near perfect!!” So you get into bidding war & pay a little too much, but, OK, now you’ve got figure….. You over pay for shipping, get it finally, open it up & it’s from the dump!! Little bit of rust, a few scuffs, pug nose, nick in hat. You write the seller & he says, “Geez, I didn’t know – I would be proud to have it in my collection. Didn’t notice THE RUST, SCUFFS, PUG NOSE – hey old toys ain’t PERFECT you know.” But he was happy to take 110% of DEAD MINT price. Most of what I buy is sight unseen. Some I would have put right back down if I saw it in person. If people want this stuff in their collection, that’s fine with me, but if I pay good money for a figure, I want the figure to be worth what I paid. I don’t mind paying $1 or $2 for broken figures I plan to convert, but don’t want to be deceived by junk passed off as “EXCELLENT” merchandise. And if people have small children or grandchildren – do you really want them to chew on dump figures that they somehow accidentally got a hold of??
I got beat to the punchline about the figure removal service. I do have some MPC recast 60mm ringhand ACW Brits that are just not right. The red color comes off in your hand. I washed them, painted them, triple top coated them and they’ve been ‘stable’ ever since.
I mean AWI Brits. Whoops.
I sold a slightly off-color Flint on Ebay. Only slightly different color than most you see, still crème. The buyer wasn’t satisfied, said his expert friend called it a recast. I refunded his money. WAS the figure ever recast? Mike
The only possible copy of the figure would have been if it had been done in resin. The mold itself is missing at this time.
no recasts to my knowledge but it may have been a dump figure where cream figures become light cream then off white, then light gray and then dark gray.
I think you hit it exactly. Thanks to you and all who replied.
Not totally off subject, but has anyone ever thought, (or know if there is one), that maybe Ideal. MPC, ect. had dumps for their unwanted toys? If so, I wonder where they may be located at?
BOBBYGMOORE
I believe Kent researched that a number of years ago at least on a couple of Illinois based toy companies, he may be able to fill in some gaps.
I heard a story that there were actually two dumps in West Virginia, one is almost pristine or so the story goes and the guy won’t let anyone dig on his land. Of course that could just be a story too. You would figure that somewhere out there is a cache of gray Johnny Ringo figures buried under 10 feet of West Virginia clay. Sure would be interesting if they were ever found.
That shallow breathing we’re all experiencing right now, and the ‘voice’ that is telling us to drop everything and grab your shovel, is ‘plastic gold fever.’ It may or may not pass.
My friend John Reichl got to go back to one of the dumps. From what he told me it was experience. They first had to meet some good old boys in a bar. One of the guys had no teeth. As they gain their confidence, they took John and some others in the back country. The one guy had lost his drivers license but he could drive there as it was off road. They had to travel back into the woods and it was a rough ride. John said he found a few things but nothing great. He hoped to go back the next year but nothing happen.
I have no interest in digging. I have no idea where the dumps and do not care. My friend John had no idea either. From what I have seen the dump a lot are damaged and discolored. Also much is common figures like farm animals. If you are interest in the dump stuff go to the Marx convention. You should have someone selling some of dump stuff. I do not go to the show anymore as it is not cost effective.
One final thing I would not try to go on your own to the dump as the people are not friendly to strangers and they have been taken advantage of. Better to buy it from someone has the ability to get it like Ric Kellar.
I’ve wanted to go to the Marx dump ever since I heard about it, but I figured it’s been picked over after all these years. After reading your description of getting there it makes it less attractive. I think I’d turn around when I saw the kid sitting on the porch playing the banjo…
That sound as Hatfield–McCoy family descendant around that area!!
no a nice place to be ….
Yeah it’s like the Mystery of Oak Island , Montezuma’s gold or Solomons Mines. People have spent fortunes and spent lifetimes searching for treasures. The dumps are more of a sure thing, I mean you’ll find something that can be turned into cash. It may or may not be worth it in the long run, but it would be an experience. Just imagine finding that vein of Johnny Ringo’s or Gunsmoke character figures.
I purchased a Wyatt Earp character figure in gray from Rick Keller at the Michigan Show a few years back, at an unusually low price. I understand most of the Wyatt Earp character figures were cream-colored, so I suspect this one is a dump figure.
John Stengel Sr. told me I can test it by cutting off an arm or leg, to see if it is cream or gray underneath. The discoloration from being in the ground would only extend to the outside of the figure, whereas the inside of the plastic would still be the original color. But, of course, cutting off the arm or leg would be sort of self-defeating.
Since I understand that some Wyatt Earps were originally cast in gray, I just let this one sit on my shelf, and I pretend I’ve got a gray Wyatt Earp.
I really have no objection to a “dump figure” per se. But if the figure is discolored, I view it as a damaged figure, and don’t really want to get any more of them.
OOPS, sorry. My comment above, about gray dump figures was supposed to go here after Don. My mistake.
I got Wyatt Earp in several different colors from one of the auctions that broke up the partnership between Bowers and Scalia. Wyatt was done in gray, black and tan.
I have seen a few figures where the transformation isn’t quite complete. For some reason yellow turns black in the dump and have seen a figure that was mostly black but had some parts that were still yellow. More like spots of yellow. I have also heard of someone dropping a gray figure and it shattered and from the pieces you could see the cream color inside. I have a partial set of gray cavalry and what I found most interesting was that they don’t float on water. I have seen that in some older figures too, not sure why that would happen.
Some plastics are less dense than water, like polyethylene so they float- while others more dense like polystyrene will sink. Marx experimented with all kinds of plastics and pigments, it was all new stuff back then. Years ago there were many kinds of inorganic compounds which were used by the paint industry as pigments (think lead oxides for example) because the colors they produced were very stable and did not easily fade. Some of these pigments were also used in the early plastics industry for the same reasons and later banned because of their toxicity. Some of the ‘dump figures’ may have been made with unstable pigments and/or experimental plastics, etc. and so deemed unsuitable to market to the public.
You might try examining some of the ‘suspect gray’ figures under a black light, compare them to regular gray figures in the same light and see how they differ. Just a thought…
I’ve seen Wyatt in gray. 100% not a dump figure, as I know where it came from. A fellow collector from Long Island has it, along with pieces of the Western Town that he got at the same flea Market that I go to.
Funny that a lot of the figures and hard plastic pieces were damaged, but Wyatt only had a scuff on his hat. The figure was in Marx medium CSA gray.
I have a Cream fallen horse that has some dark gray (Marx CSA Centennial Dark Gray)
mixed in with it. A couple of spots near the tail. For the longest time I thought that it was paint or Magic Marker. After dozens of tries to remove it, I finally realized that it was part of the figure, not paint or anything else.
I thought that perhaps the machine had some excess gray plastic in it when they began to run the Cream falling horses. I’ve had this figure way before the dump stuff was discovered, so it did not come from there.
Anyone else run across mixed colors?
Bill, I had a complete set of old Marx Miners & Trappers that came with a boxed Montgomery Ward Roy Rogers Ranch playset. Every piece, including the separate sack carried on the figure’s shoulder had pink swirled into the light gray which proved it to be a matched set. Set also had a Rifleman style cabin with gray roof and separate gray HP porch & chimney and a red Nellybelle HP jeep. Unique set that I sold years back to Rick Eber that I wish I still had today. Also have a cream ACW “dead” horse with a royal blue streaks that runs through the whole figure & are visible on both top & bottom as well as a brown “dead” horse with black marbling patches throughout. These other colors are not stains or paint and they run throughout the figures. I love these swirled figures. I guess there were leftover colors in the machines when the new colors were shot.
A bit off subject but I ran across a website for Lego collectors and one of their specialties is collecting rare marbled lego bricks. Because they are ‘rare’, they are quite valuable to certain collectors. The Lego factory workers made them just for fun from scrap plastic.
Thank you TD ,now If I see one x good price I will definitely get it x sale later, who knows in few years how much more will cost.
The swirled colors are indeed from remnants of the previous color plastic used in the injector. If I am changing the color I usually run some clear plastic through to purge the earlier color otherwise the two colors swirl and marble quite a bit. Louis Marx used intentional swirling to good effect in some of his hard plastic play set accessories and you may see it in other plastic products from the 1950’s and 1960’s. It was novel at the time but you really don’t see it in current plastic products or toys.
We did a bit of color swirling with plastigoop and creepy crawlers back in the ’60’s. Great fun.
Alas, I have not had a black light since the 70’s, from what I can remember and who can remember lots about the 70’s.