Plastic Warrior Show 2016 Report
Well another successful Plastic Show has happened. The show was on Saturday 14th at Winning Post, a pub outside of Richmond which is a suburb of London UK. We talked to our very good friend Peter Evans and told us that the show went off without a hitch except the tables came late that they had to delay opening to the general public. The show had over hundred admissions. Sales were brisk as the people were buying and the dealers. People were amazed to see the many different and unusual figures. It was a pleasure to see so many different figures instead of the typical Britains and Timpo figures.
The hit of the show was this year was the new figures from Replicants as mention in Replicants posting. Here is the list again.
1) 4 brand new smugglers to add to the original set, so total of 8 different – both sets now in stock.
2) 4 all new Battle of Hastings figures.
3) Mediaeval Monk and Nun.
4) Replicants 20th Anniversary figure of a Highwayman (Dick Turpin for all intents and purposes).
All these figures are welcome additions not only to Replicants line but to various scenarios. The smugglers can be used as pirates and the Battle of Hasting figures can be used in other battles. Peter told us that the Replicants Medieval monk and Nun sold out at the show.
I asked Peter what he got at the show. He got some pirate figures he did not have and some Polish Napoleonics. He also go the Engineer Bassevitch set. and some MDM 40mm Napoleonics. These figures had been done in plastic as the originals were done in metal . Peter also got a set of the Speedwell Germans and early 50’s company from England. Peter told me another very good friend Barry Blood had got a Hong copy of a Lone Star Guardsman. What made this figure interesting was it had a swivel arm which Lone Star did not have.
We will be getting more reports in the coming days so keep checking in.
Markus Leckscheid’s Plastic Warrior Show 2016 Report
Our very good friend Markus Leckscheid has added to our Plastic Warrior Show 2016 Report by sent us some photos of the show.
The first two photos shows our very good friend Peter Bergner’s figure boxes. People spend hours going through them looking for bargains.
This photo shows some of the different Lone Star western figures
This photo shows several hard to find figures. The Lone Star Children are twenty-five pounds ($35.35). The Britains Robin Hood figures four of the five figures are thirty-five pounds ($54.54) Also in the photo are Lone Star mounted Zorro, Gem cowboys, two Cherilea mounted knights and Speedwell Afrika Corp or Germans.
Britains Civil War Caissons
Britains Swoppet Civil War and Revolutionary War Plus Britains eyes Right Grenadier Band
Britains Swoppet Knights amd Timpo Vikings
A look at the show itself
Various tables at the show, Markus noted that you have to look under the table and many times that is where the good stuff.
Nice pictures ,a lot non see here as usual , first yellow cases show a lot HK knock off and least two Marx -Britain made 54 knights sets or Germany version possible too.
Thanks x awesome pictures and reports in first blog/forum in US admin!!!.
Great welcome on new Hasting and others Replicant set!!
WOW!!AIP cases $4.00 pounds only!!.that is clearance price out there .I had not see it here often…
From the prices I’m seeing on several items (and realizing they are in pound sterling rather than U.S. dollars) it appears prices over there may be just as expensive and maybe even more so than the prices over here.
Don
The prices on some items are worse in their home countries than here. Others are cheaper you just have to know your prices. there are some items I will no longer buy over in my travels either cost or little demand.
Don,you may be right about be more proportional costly, but most you see there u do not see here in standard US shows at all!!. Top table prices are x top payers sets/figures in hard to find condition or else .
I see that AIP sets x 4.00 BP each a case or $5.74 USD aprox is cheap I think versus AIP own store offering buy three set $12.00 each=$36.00 x you to get one free or CTS offering sets at 7 to 8 each in some and more in others plus shipping.
As Markus mentioned and many of us know ,looking low or bellow tables have a lot deal and many of those are not Marx or US brands. In fact most US or Marx figures you will get them there more cheap as British seller in particular do not price then much.
But lets not forget ,UK is Europe and Europe is not cheap today ,it was in 10-40 years after war but now they are way ahead of US in many things and have a very high living standard, so their prices my adjust with way living as well .
My thoughts..
best…
In fact the Herlad RH set with mounted sheriff is a deal x $38.00 Pounds in my research opinion.You do not see that set complete often around many times.
3 foot poses HERALD RH sets sale here in US on eBay last time x 69.99 USD .
But once again these are European figures, most top table are British, I see In between herald table figure an Spaniard rare cowboy made in Spain, that figure along sale between Spaniards x no less 35.00 USD.Is call the (Perdido cahido) between Spaniards collectors and they look x it a lot!!(He is the tall 65 mm figure in green shirt with revolver in right hand falling back after being shot) between two gemodels British made 54 mm cowboys -rare too by the way.
European figures with few main brands exception such as Britain,timpo and airfix were much less amounted run in mass production versus the huge x export industries of MARX ,ideal,tim mee,mpc and others. Their figures are in much less quantities than US main line produced today in the hobby world. If The paint condition is 70/90% complete top and rise the value of the figure a lot. But on eBay you often find British figures deal but notice the paint is bad and falling off, that is why the price deal on those at eBay most time.
European look at color detail of original figure like you will look at the nose of a Marx figure not being scratch and tip of sword not broken or bite.
I explain this so every body here please observe the way different countries and culture see and price their valuable nostalgic toys please ,not to influence my opinion in any body at all ,just in my good and best friendly interest of opinion and with out any other intention or disrespect what so ever .
I like to be friend of all at all time even though we could have difference and argue some times please…But I got a multicultural talent because of my family different background, languages learn ,place birth ,lived and travel a lot after that had give me a very rare experience and I notice need/like and wish to share x lack of being known by many around.
best….
It’s funny seeing large bins of loose figures with no Marx guys in there. Different world.
Ed ,yes Paul is the best as he had been there several times and he can tell way more ,than me .I never been to UK at all, but got plenty report and pictures x years of their shows and see even you tube videos. My jaw drop when see what we never dream exist of, others I see a lot on eBay and magazines/books
But Europeans have a complete different like.
In the other hand Spaniards love the American figures unpainted as well, I notice it and I had swapped figures x it.Specially 60-70 mm ,they do not like much the 54 mm range as not quite match theirs ,but they do not give a dam as painted or not. Germans and Italian like US figures too, probably because brands such Marx and Tim mee being done and recast there as well or else .
I guess British are a bit picky-(it was a joke to pull some Anglo-Breton out there and have talk please!!).Not mean it at all!!
This hobby is so beautiful ,but same time piss me off not seen children attracted to it, with so much beauty in art being done.
Lets not forget when a single figure is done ,it is a mini sculpture master done by in most cases unknown and not recognized artist. So sad not appreciation on this matter had been done by other than us .
Ed
It is one reason I like Europe shows as I get to see other figures other than Marx. Marx does pop up but you find it in odd colors or reasonable prices. I have told the story of at Plastic warrior Show of a dealer having one shelf having Cherilea Executioner Figures for 90 pounds each. The on the shelf below were Marx 1812 sailors for five pounds each.
Also funny that at OTSN we get metal dealers from all over the world, but only Steve Weston from the UK as far as I know as a foreign plastic dealer.
I noticed that a lot of the bins have what I would term as junk figures and other assorted crap. However, it looks much cleaner than the junk I see in boxes from American dealers. I swear some of the stuff I see for sale in some rooms I’m afraid to touch as I might get the Black Plague. Many rooms have a musty odor from unwashed old plastic. Or maybe that’s unwashed dealers, can’t tell.
Yes same in east show at Hackensack ,plenty ;I will said half are metal dealers .
Weston do not travel to this ,only Chicago in US,I saw him there in 2003 only. But some Russian dealers come on east show as well ,but not always same ..is on and off.
I think the load and bringing all products plus air fare and hotel is costly unless other purpose. IT will be hard from one or two days show recover the air fare, hotel ,gas and expenses from an international travel.
I agree on those trash dirty figures junk, I carry hand gel all time x that, I bet they come from years in murky basement with rat pee and all that…
Others do not care ,but I notice that if vinyl Marx figures are pretty much easy to wash with a toothbrush and soap, in the other side;rubber early are very hard to clean at all and when stain, they get it x ever, using strong chemical will affect figure detail and surface because reaction.
There was two other dealers in plastic from the UK that came to OTSN. One was a dealer with the first name Paul the other Adrian. They may have had metal with them.
I think if a European dealer came over with a bunch of foreign plastic he’d probably make a killing. Steve mainly sells new European plastic. I’ve never found the other two guys you mention. Then again, I don’t wander too much at OTSN, too busy trying to sell my own goods. I have a feeling that this year I will be especially busy.
Ed.Is true.Steve as far I saw and heard plus what he carry at other shows and his website are new items from European plus some timpo and Britain that is well known here.Not rare vintage or odd European products that will be a hit I bet.
But about others dealers they should do same if come from Europe.
I know two metal dealers and chinese Figarti plus K&C Scottish there too.
But same also happen.Not know of any American dealer bring old items to European shows as well.
I believe it’s probably due to issues that have been mentioned above, you have to bring a lot of plastic to meet your expenses and it’s probably not worth it , too much overhead to make any money. Sort of why I don’t go to Texas show every often , it has to be a vacation for me, because I never make any money there, I’m not a big enough dealer to make thousands of dollars worth of sales during any one show, except for OTSN
Yep, So right. All true…
If look well ;general shows has from 60 to 250-MAX!? tables aprox ,counting at least two dealer per dealer/name or company as many dealers are team or couples .I notice as PW just reported with over 100 entries wonder how much was spend and how much seller recovery.
I had bee at Albany NY toy show once as seller and few times as buyers till they close it down because not sale and plenty losses, the one time I was as seller I did not more than 300 .Least recovery table cost and near 200 more. It is very close my home-25 Minutes
Now at Hackensack-NJ ,I did sale in 2002,2003,2008 and 2011,then in 2014.In all but 2014 I did good but not way a lot.
On 2014 I recovery plus few more X gas ,expenses and table and got some extra but not much and it is 3 hours from me .I consider that show not good. I saw many bad faces at the end and others complaining not even recover the table cost. The number of attendant never past three times numbers of dealers at shows. I can NOT speak x OTSN
Is hard to make money on shows, plus half done is between sellers/dealers them self. It is fun to see faces and share some times, but as profit is not very fun !!
As mentioned before,internet stores sites plus eBay had reduce a lot the sale power of shows the same way had kill the hobby stores .
I also notice the same stuff all over in many tables, like recycling from one year to other and them 4 to 5 main large dealers carrying all the same thing at exact same price and deals like a Home Depot across Lowes all time. Not sense in such small space in my opinion.
Bringing a lot plastic is bulky and costly, SW from UK I think he ship half or part here to the hotel first, still that is a lot money .Like you said unless another interest as trip or else will make sense , if not is a lot of waste if too far.
I have not been to Hackensack in about 10 years. I just lost interest in shows because they just became to homogeneous for me. Everyone sells the same things and the
odds of finding a treasure are now zero.
Ebay is one reason. The other is those “picker” shows, which lets everyone who watches, think that they have thousands of dollars worth of plastic, when they have a handful of MPC Cowboys.
How many times have you heard this.
“These are rare Marx figures. It says MPC right here. Marx Plastic Company. See?”
Even the flea markets are starting to get stupid. I had a dealer offer me a repo Fort Apache in the box for 400 bucks this weekend. He got pissy when I told him I wouldn’t give him 4 bucks for it and explained that it was a junk piece, reissue crap.
Shows were fun back in their day when metal guys gave plastic away for pennies. And when tables were 20 bucks, without the NJ TaxMan breathing down your neck.
Guys like me would split a table with a buddy (Al Striano or Gary Dutko) just to get in early and make the rounds before the crowds got in. Once the doors opened, we sold off stuff we had extras of, or things that were no longer of interest.
We found new items, made some money selling off duplicates, saw old friends and went home happy. It was the show of the year in the Northeast.
Now?
I miss seeing some of the older guys that I’ve known for many years. Other than that,
it’s just not worth the trip. That’s just me. You may find things different.
Bill ,I’m pretty much same now,I had lost a lot interest as previews reason and similar as yours.On flea market,I do not do it as not time and in my area a lot are being clean but what I call organized toy hunters mafia that get all before got to fleamarket table.
Th then all pup in ebay at stupid insane prices .
Ebay had affect positive and negative I will like add.Positive because we can get things more easy than travel and if search well. isted items in wrong category by sellers w poor knowledge that give a deal buy now price or else,also as way to recognize and identity items and brands plus see price range.
But negative because some few bidders that either go nuts or have a lot money have create false perspective in prices x others not true realistic sellers that then list it x insane prices.
In the other bad side, sellers suffer because increasing fees ,shipping cost ,the so abused returns rights to buyers that create a lot false guarantee and the” big”toy soldiers dealers selling same thing all over at same price on top same price they have in their store web site and sale at shows that create a monopoly w out competition.
To add more ebay had bought most competition and invest with USPS to get packing discount with them only,forsing sellers to sale at ebay only to get the shipping discount .
During our early years in going to Chicago, we used to haul over a lot of Deetail, Cherilea, Charbens, Herald etc but found that there was very little interest other than in the rarer Deetail stuff, then we introduced the DSG range to the US and found once again that there was very little interest. We have been coming across the Pond for around 20 years and have attended both The West Coaster and The Texas shows, but neither are worth the expense for us. Now we concentrate on bringing over stuff that you guys don’t regularly find such as Engineer Basevich. And yes, we have to sell 1,000’s of plastic figures just to be able to afford the Air Fair, let alone the hotel and all other costs – enough to say we don’t achieve this, but use it as a holiday of sorts.
***AIP at 4.00 pounds a box was a one-off by a collector selling his collection. Normal price is around 16.00 Dollars depending on the current exchange rate.
Steve, permit me to ask: Are you typically set up at OTSN on Thursday, or not until Friday?
Personally, I’ve never been able to see how anyone (other than a few people like Rick Eber, selling $1,000+ playsets) could ever make any money at a show like OTSN, after you factor in transportation, hotel room, restaurant, and the original cost of the items being offered for sale. Maybe in the heyday of the 1980s it was possible, but not now.
But like the Westons, I try to view going to OTSN and other shows as just a toy soldier holiday that’s fun to go to and find things. When I sell, it’s simply an attempt to defray a PORTION of the costs. But all toy soldier shows, except the ones that I attend locally (like Joe Saine’s Michigan show), always represent a net EXPENSE for me, even when I bring stuff to sell.
But on the other hand, the cost of going to shows to buy stuff does get offset by the cost of postage you have to pay to order stuff, which these days can be significant. The cost of ordering a Barzso playset and a TSSD playset now totals $40.00 —- which I don’t have to pay if I just go to OTSN to pick them up in person.
Additionally, I think the cost of vintage plastic purchased at shows is generally less than what is being asked for on Ebay —- generally. Not to pick on Jim McGough (whom I’ve ordered from and who has made great contributions to the hobby), but I’ve been looking at his ebay store for years, and nearly everything he lists can be had for considerably less cost at the shows.
Don
For many of the dealers metal and plastic at OTSN the show is like Christmas sales. It may have changed since I have last been there.
Agree Don I agree in playset ,only shows are the best deal x any bulky big sets/toys, castles else, no way ordering a playset on mail is good unless the rare (“clearance sales” ) run by few dealers.You are so right there..
Any how every year are less those buying playsets and Huge Barzso playsets are not very economic and many avoid them. That is why they do it so limited run.Same when Conte did his. Those FOAM type material add on building are pretty but a cost killer x maker and buyer.
On shipping as I mention before the trick is eBay-Recently from a good personal source I found out USPS and eBay made a lot deals back curtain to monopolize.
What this mean if by instance I have a web site store I can not offer the same discount shipping using USPS as I would if use EBay store sales.So I do both.
So sample:CTS uses standard USPS with very limited minor business USPS discount on shipping than that of EBay sale stores offer. So CTS non ebay store rather use the standard weight shipping by amount of sale which is tricky as well because unless you buy good deal discount from them (as some time they do) you do not save.
Now for a collector, maker and dealer as I’m I have my experience as well those from Syracuse NY to NY/MA update border that collect and only two shows within 3 to 5 hours from us, Boston Show and Hackensack.
So that drive plus time and tolls is a lot that is about $100 or more in our area gas /toll rates. With 100 we can still order a lot from regular dealers in mail.(not counting as you said the playsets of course.
AIP offer free shipping in orders over certain amount,CTS runs similar special often too. I know HB had too and few others,
So for big and small dealers they had been force such CTS,HB ,TS-NYC open x a wile an (eBay store )as well to sale and doing it as way save in shipping cost from USPS-EBAY DEAL as offering free shipping by self is a big lost x any dealer.(also lets not forget packing,protection,tape and time consuming doing it)
About vintage in show better than on line. I personally disagree, I had in my years collecting find better deals on eBay and international sale bid sites else than at shows.
My observation is base that unless a show dealers need to make desperate money he will let go the vintage or very common vintage that are not very priced ,or you buy bulk to get a discount from it,or in last case the dealer do not know well the real price of product.
Now on eBay I use two way, one is very late night and set price till my max desire price,if the bet go x me fine,if not too bad too sad=next time then.,
I also always in advance ask seller if lot could be ship first class mail inside US or parcel letter international if less 2-4 pounds depending country.
Risk of damage if figures are too fragile I won’t ask x it, if regular vinyl figures I had never ever got a big issue in over 20 years doing mail orders at all.
Other way is got the buy now option fast or do offers and more important look in wrong category for what I want.
On eBay I had found in US sales half my vintage products listed in wrong category. International I had got it under their own-country category and brands.
Now at shows;most sellers are very well known in the products they sale and they mark a bit high often as to take offer, adding gas, trip and others around able to get it before you get to the table is a big risk lost factor.
Now that is my personal experience in my side .
I also set my laptop programed to bid in my items as I wish and time end, so I can sleep wile it does x me.
Any how in international bids on not eBay is more fun still. But that is another talking of course as depend in every site and hours plus rules they had.
best….
Don,
Actually, we are set up as from the Wednesday! there is no point in us flying in for just 2/3 days, so we get there early and set up.
Lately, it’s been a lot quieter than previous years and we even had to throw guys out of our room at gone midnight so we could get some sleep, but those days are now long gone. I like to open early, so you can catch us from around 8.30-9.00a.m.
As always, let me know if there is anything anyone wants us to bring as we can only guess what you guys are looking for, and each year we get surprised as to what you ask for – normally, it’s what we leave behind! e-mail me with any requests and I will do my best to help.
Well,that confirm what we were talking Steve.Thank you x telling us u view.
I believe now more US collectors are in to old vintage but because many cherilea,charbens and other british brands are easy to get eitger in recast or ebay for long,it is not what we are looking x most.
But more from Germany,Spain,Italy
France and else.
Britain,timpo,lone star,many crescent and others vintage had been very abundant for over 12 years in ebay and selling every time cheaper from UK . I had got most those brands in good deal and able to complete my UK brand collection like that.I bet many here had done same as I obsever sales on ebay a lot…
About russian .Here in US east coast side this year we got two russian dealers.I had three times bring 2 sets each of EB and PV plus last new unknown brand and most time sale pretty much ok ,but not to bring a lot as very costly,will said the more expensive new production ever and many not willing buy more.
I notice michigan toy soldiers and tssd carry the russian sets once and not more x long and nir restock x long in new sets,there be a good reason x that I bet!
Same way sale is hard, buying of course is an issue too with economy not recocering x so long.
May be bringing new not common European items will bring more profit.
Not too expensive items.
DSD from Argentina are still seen as Britain style remake of same poses,not much interst here and not cheap either.I myself had only few knights and romans,rest not interest.
Forgot last about AIP x 4.00, regarless or not a seller cleaning house I was told by a good source he did good with those deal as brake the monotony of every body same price.
Almost no body run specials in these show,they set tables and expect sale all at same price as other in new product.Not fun If that is that way,what is the point x same new products been carry by 4 or 5 sellers at same time on one day x few hours x same price??
Made not sense x buyers.I rather buy direct from stores/site.
On old vintage items is a different thing of course…
🙂 🙂 :-)..
I am sure the party who bought AIP to the show sold well as it was a bargain. Many of the collectors at PW are war gamers.
Erwin,
Pleased that you remembered coming to Chicago and buying my Timpo Roman collection (still regret selling it, but I don’t hold on to anything for long).
I have to disagree with your comments on selling new products at the same price by all dealers – surely that is just the point? If we all buy at the same price from AIP, and we all generally work to the same margin, then the selling price must be the same across the board? A collector selling his own items is a different matter, he can decide if to take a loss on his purchase price, but why would a dealer want to buy and then sell at a loss or even for less than the cost price? I NEVER negotiate a selling price on new goods, and should not be expected to, also, I don’t want to start a price war with fellow dealers. We all have our different overheads to cover – no two have the same outlay and,no, competition is not always healthy as shown by the amount of Brand name stores closing down.
With older collectables, obvioulsy, there cannot be one fixed price between the dealers, which is where the fun is at the shows – going from table to table and comparing the price, hoping then to buy at the lowest price is someone else has not got there before you?
Yes, I’ve played the game of waiting to buy until I’ve gone around to compare prices, or just “thinking about it” while I continue to look around — only to find someone else purchased what I wanted before I got back to it.
Sometimes, rather than delaying a purchase just to make sure there’s no other dealer at the show who might have the same item at a slightly lower price, I’ve found the better part of wisdom is just to buy it while it’s there. That way, even if I end up paying an extra dollar or two, at least I’ve now got the vintage plastic figures I wanted.
At the last Indiana Show, I delayed making an offer to my own roommate on an Ideal Pirate Ship, thinking that by the end of the show, when it remained unsold, that he would then take a lower price. But even before the show started, John Stengel Jr. came walking by, saw the ship, and paid my roommate his asking price without so much as a quibble. Now whenever I see the ship it’s always at a higher price.
And when it comes to “new plastic” these days, I’ve learned I’d better buy it while it’s in front of me, rather than wait for it to “go on sale”, because short production runs sometimes mean it might be quite a while before I ever find it again.
Yes, those are the odds inside a shows and so many around x few hours looking same item as you.
Many dealers or most collect too and often buy items before shows open, I had see it a lot. Not right at all!!
Is a risk ,but if happen, well next time them may be. I rather seat and search or do wile doing else and set automatic searching system x me too ,if see with buy option, get it, if bid try and if loss o well. There is risk everywhere…small hobby, small business, small world, small chances to get what we like…
Sure Steve.
We all have disagreement ,that is what make forums/blogs fun.Yes I remember buying the huge collection with many chariots else from timpo u put x price and taken offer in 2002 or 2003 ?.I can recall well there.and I’m glad u took my offer by email and bring all to chicago x me, there I met u and wife.
Was nice see you both.I mention it no long ago,then I ended selling part of it as more romans new productions feel my ranks.
About dealers selling and agree same price.
That sound like a brotherhood business charity business.
Capitalism fun is competetion and offer deals and as pecial on new products,as well old too if like and want sale it,before get dusty.
If my business sale exact the same thing at 10.00 a product as other acrorss all I’m doing is given other seller opportunity to sale the same buyer that past by my table the same item.
So he get the sale and not me.That is in a matter of second thought.
Other option is he buy from u half and other seller w same price other half.=that is like split a $20.00 bill half.(What’s the point).?
Business or be seller friendly partners w yout competitors???
How you increase sales?? :-):-)
You barrely will do same as others sellers unless u advertise and go buyers face all time more!! 🙂 🙂
And that is hard in this hobby.
You can always run specials obserbing whay other same items sellers have,give a customer a better deal offer so.they do.not think twice going next dealer w same item.
You sale yours,you.make money,you happy.
Otherwise all you dealers in a show are making a monopoly association fraternity.
Good luck with that.:-) 🙂 🙂
I run specials and take offer on new products ,I given buyer shipping first class opportunity shipping inside US and international, few dealers offer it.If I see items not moving quick I lower and advertise as to compere w others plus more.It had worked great.I had dealers ask me why I do it.My answer ;to sale and give buyers better deal price and options .If they do.not like they should do same I sugest 🙂 🙂
Again my view as collector,seller and minor maker of course.
Best regards
And sorry x dots and else, phone fingers again. LOL!!!
We just had a bunch of Charbens British in Mitre hats and they sold like hot cakes at a good price. I suppose not enough to afford plane fare to England, but a decent amount for us duffers. Truth be told though, the only show really worth going to for us is OTSN. One big reason is it’s a 20 minute drive, but I still get a room and it’s a lot of fun. I used to do okay at the Indy, but once they changed locations that went downhill. I broke about even at Lafayette, so I’ll go back there at least one more time. I like going to Texas, I have a lot of fun there, but it costs me a pretty penny and my sales there really suck.
I’ve had over 2k sales at OTSN, not like the really big guys, but good enough to make me some money. I’ve talked to other dealers , that are not Rick Eber, that have had over 15k sales at OTSN. People that show up there for the most part have money to spend and they spend it. I usually have at least one guy spend $500.00 in my room, again not big money, but that’s my room and table expenses for the show. I’m just a little guy that has fun and makes a little money.
The fun in going to toy shows was to be able to see unusual or hard to find items first hand. Instead of having to travel around to every garage sale and flea market, The toy show offered a lot of cool stuff all in one place. Ebay now seems fulfill the function of toy shows, hobby stores and flea markets, etc. Granted, my perspective is from a collector’s point of view, not that of a seller or dealer. If you look at it as a business then times are probably tough but for collectors there is still a lot of cool stuff out there.
I had lost that fun in my experience ,like Bill said in last shows at had been few good deals and first entering take the good items,theres also a not correct semi sale and swap done before shows open among dealers seller that occur often as I had been as seller setting tables and see them doing a lot,if is something I got few repeated I do sale, but if unique I tell them to wait till few customers enter show.
Again my view -personal experience.
In OTSN the day before room swap is fun but also kill the fun for those able to go show only. I do not think is very good correct doing it.
One big toy show I used to attend in the S.F. Bay Area started allowing certain folks in early for an extra fee. Short sighted, I think in the long run this practice worked against toy show attendance. Pre-show trading by dealers must also remove many interesting items from reaching the sales floor. Over time I noticed the toy show offerings becoming more generic – same stuff being offered by the same folks each show. I stopped attending because the ‘thrill of the hunt’ was no longer possible there, which was a big part of why going there was fun.
Anyone can get in early by paying the Early-Bird Early Admittance Fee. If you’re willing to pay for the privilege, and it’s equally open to whoever pays, I don’t see any unfairness.
But I happen to know that John Stengel Jr. & previously Barry Carter both agreed with you: Barry Carter wouldn’t permit early admittance, and the Stengels don’t allow early admittance at any of their shows either. I don’t know about Hackensack, but I thought I had heard Bill Lango didn’t permit early admissions either.
But as I see it, the dealers themselves are already picking over each other’s offerings, grabbing up the unique, unusual, and any underpriced figures — all before the general public gets to see anything. But that’s the way it goes. The same thing happens at OTSN — by the time I arrive on Friday morning, the early-birds that came in on Thursday (being willing to pay for an extra night’s lodgings) had already scooped up many of the choice pickins’.
For the shows that don’t allow paid early admissions, I’ve learned how to get around it: I buy a table, or I split a table with some other collector, or I link up as a dealer assistant with somebody else who bought a table. One way or the other, I’m willing to pay for the privilege of getting in early. And anybody else who is willing and truly wants to can do the same.
I have heard a couple of dealers comment that at least half of their sales are to other dealers in the pre-show time period, before the doors open to the general public.
And as Ed Borris points out, his own experience at OTSN is that the preponderance of his sales occur in Thursday, Friday, and Saturday room sales, before the gate opens to the actual show on Sunday morning.
The early-bird will always get the worm, in toy soldier collecting and all other aspects of life, and there is no getting around it.
Early entering is offered or least been done in some shows with a fee before.If an early high fee is set.It is ok I think x those willing but should be advertise from start of shows month before so every body know.
Not at same day early as I saw once and got few people anger.
That dealers among them self buying items before show start I think is very dishonest and should be enforced not to so,specially as main pupose of one day show is to give people coming from far the one time chance few deals and new stuff find
That is been practiced a lot and I do not like it.I see all time at shows I had sale.
And I can tell most rare hard items are bought before show start in that way.
Incredible some dealers buy it before from others and put x resale as they.know some buyers that will come looking x it and end paying more.So there is another dirty trick out of between dealers business before show start.
I will not said any more about OSTN as been there few and not experience at all as dealer.Only last day buying.But had heard complains about the early days by some collectors.
I do not doubt many of you got great express and im glad you all enjoy.
The two times I went,I found same I knew.
One trip was as I went x chicago in a 5 days vaca w my former wife and took train down to shamburg,I buy few new items and some russian stuff.
Rest I skip.I had see a lot elsewere already.
Second time I was in job business trip and rent near to get Steve Weston hundred s timpo big lot I got from him plus conquistadors barzso playset in my car.I did not buy any else of my personal interst.
So I’m off comenting on it ,to avoid confusing from my perspective view
Best..
I get what you’re saying Don and fully understand the competitive nature of collecting in this hobby. I’m just saying that many people will choose not to bother attending a toy show if they know the items have already been picked through multiple times. It eliminates the hope that “I might find something really cool at a great price!” and replaces it with the more realistic expectation ” It’s just the same old stuff with the same high prices – why do these guys even bother setting up a table??”
TD at Hackensack I had seen few same guys bring the same old playset and tin litho every single year x least 5 years in the row. It is funny but sad too as I do not like sellers feel like that but for god sake these guys do not lower a price every years but rise in most cases and I’m talking about prince valiant playset with numbers every body see before and so on.
There is one I ask him ,(here gain with same on)?!.He laugh and said(Who knows maybe this year)!.
There FEW ,but very few good find in shows as we all had talk the pre open shows is where most rare things sold before doors open. Why?.Because all us who know about this and are collectors in the field(me learning about US for some time now) will get it before any body else.
So for poor buyers attending once open doors few good things left.
In NY long island=Bill territory is good for attic hunting and flle markets, but I bet Bill had some competition out there, so is hard.
I know PA is good finding in garage. Flee market as we gout Paul scorching tactics he does x years, but he mention too the many idiots (not collectors eBay sellers )going and fighting x it some times.These are vulture that google sales in eBay and go out there looking to sale and nothing else.
Me I live north in the frontier,but not time,incredible I had found odd british mark figures that I never knew and I think is because Canada border Upstate New Yorkers have connection, we cross the border here like doing shopping all time. But I’m so in rush all time as you guys see my tipping in phone or laptop most time on top my “”great grammar skills””and no chance check garage sales, flee market at all.
So is a hard world ,in shows more than ever and that is the reason are closing fast.
I will mention three along that in late 90’s were good and now close.
Albany,Armonk and White Plaines in NY.
I visit them from 1996-2005,by 2005 everything was down, in 2008 I come back and same thing and after I heard from few the same. Conclusion close down as many buyers feel the same as me .
OTSN is the greatest and bigger I agree and 3 days sales else,not doubt, hope BE x ever as that!!!!.I TRULLY WISH!!!
But following(My) less every years find and finding most on line I do not need go there again unless a trip around or near.
I myself prefer buying something where I can see up close and personal rather than buy on E-Bay and only see pictures. Pictures can be deceiving and descriptions are only accurate from the perspective of the person giving the description. I may pay a few dollars more than something being offered on E-Bay, but I’m much more confident when I can touch it that I am getting what I expect and want. I’ve never been the shop around for a deal kind of guy, if I see something I want , I buy it no regrets.
Ed I agree ,is always a risk and it had happen very few times to me, but I rather do asks seller x better pictures and detail before bid or buy, most sellers does, if they do not and I see not much well pictures or detail, I pass immediately.
I not like bitten/crack figures but if nose/else minor scratch I do not care as I do not play with them with magnifier in my eyes all time. Those are hard to see things in my thoughts.
I like shows, I like talking to all the guys I see a few times each year, checking out the goods in each room before the show. Shows with out room trading are boring to me. When I first started going to OTSN I didn’t get a room I was just a shopper, I went to all the room trading and didn’t even go to the show. Now that I get a room I do more selling during room trading than I do at the show without fail.
One good thing about room trading is that a well-stocked dealer/collector can lay out so much more stuff in a room than he can on a 6-foot table.
I’m convinced one of the secrets of the success OTSN has is its well-established room-trading tradition. It transforms a Sunday morning toy soldier show into a three to four day event that I don’t think gets duplicated anywhere.
Yeah, the only thing I knew that was close was Indy. I heard the West Coaster had something like that too in the past. One of the things I think they need to do with the Lafayette show is to explain to the general public what room trading is, it’s sort of a misnomer as for the general public it’s either an alternative to the show or a chance to buy goods before anyone else. The word “trading” could mislead them and they may think they have to have something to trade. We take it for granted, but people that haven’t been going to shows for the last 20 years may get confused, especially at a new venue.
Anyway, anyone can get there early if we they plan for it at OTSN, the rooms are open just walk right in, the admission is free. Anyone that showed up on one day would be hard pressed to hit all the rooms and probably feels the need to come back on Sunday anyway for the show so they can catch them all and any dealers that don’t open for room trading.
I would like to get up to Chicago because I hear the room trading is such a blast.
I’ve enjoyed the Texas Show for the great times I’ve had both with my wife in San Antonio and hanging out with the folks after everything’s shut down. The show is great as it’s a great time to see and talk face to face with folks you either don’t see through the year or only communicate on line or on the phone.
The one thing that really got bad for me last year in Texas was the rudeness of some of the folks in the loose figure boxes – which are one of my favorite attractions – I love going through the boxes trying to find this pose you want or finding something totally unexpected. The loose figure boxes are worse than Walmart on Black Friday here lately; something I hadn’t noticed before.
And then there are the guys who are on their smartphones pricing items on ebay as they “shop.” To each his own I guess – I just try to mind my own business. I did tell my wife as we left the show last year the next guy who actually leans over in front of me as I’m going through a batch of toy soldiers, putting the back of his head in my face may get more than an indignant “Excuuuse Me…” But I remind myself, they’re only toy soldiers after all…
Sounds like a nice elbow to the solar plexus may be in order. Oops sorry, I didn’t see you there.
I can never figure out what to sell there, I thought Alamo conversions at the Alamo would be a good idea, wrong!!!!!!
My thoughts exactly, Ed – my wife was very proud I was being so good.
I would have thought Alamo conversions would have been great; I know Gary Dutko had some a couple years ago and seemed to have done well. As it is one of the few opportunities I have to buy on the spot and not through the mails I usually have a shopping list of particular items I am looking for when I go while always looking out for the surprise (last year it was the Newton Station set) – I wanted to buy a Foreign Legion Fort Gary Beadl had for sale, too – but I waited too long because I thought I’d do a walk-thru and come back. Oh well, the way it goes; glad he sold it, just wish it would have been to me.
Anyway, the last couple of years I’ve been particularly on the hunt for Alamo figures – I would have loved to have been able to pick up some of your poses on the spot. I snagged a couple of Gary’s a few years ago. I was also on the lookout for some particular Conte poses without having to buy more firing poses as well as some particular ACW poses. One year I went across the street to the Alamo museum and cleaned them out of CTS Alamo figures when they had them at a particularly low price (I think they were about $6 a bag – I haven’t seen that since). I wonder if the folks in San Antonio in general are “Alamoed” out?
The better trading and selling at Hackensack was always in the parking lot, before the doors even opened to the dealers. I can close my eyes and name 10-15 die hards who showed up at 5 AM to gather around and compare things that they had found since the last Hackensack show.
After showing off ,everyone would break up and scout out the metal dealers, who had nothing but disdain for plastic. Man, how the worm has changed!
We all had metal dealers who saved plastic for us. Don’t forget, this was before the Internet, so you might only see that metal dealer once a year. Gradually, a crowd would form around someone and horse trading would begin. Once the doors opened
we would head in and walk around checking out the tables that had been set up the night before. For me, that was the most fun. Plenty of familiar faces and who knows what treasures were hiding under that table waiting to be discovered.
It wasn’t until the doors opened to the public that we began to unpack and set up.
Al and I used to get a kick out of the “zombies” as we called them. Guys who just went around and around and never bought anything, but just kept circling the floor endlessly. Same faces, every year.
Like Erwin, I just don’t have the same desire, as I once did. I used to look forward to that show for weeks and probably couldn’t sleep the night before it.
Now….ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
Bill; the zombies are still around and now more dangerous as carry big side bags plus book packs, they have the funny opportunity to pup in your table when you are very busy. Some seems not dangerous ,others are fast with hand. Too bad I can not carry my GS as she will smell bad intention from any one and scare the hell out with a single growling signal.
Wayne,
You can always get Alamo conversions from me, they are cheap only $5.00 for each figure, I got about 200 of them right now. Lots of casualties ( dead and falling, some even wounded), lots of different firing poses, charging, clubbing you name it. I cut deals on large orders too. All those guys in the picture of my table from Lafayette are conversions. I do special orders too.
I’m definitely an admirer of your work and may be interested in a month or so – my wife and I are going on a cruise so most of the discretionary budget is headed that way right now. I’ve been doing some myself, but as I always say when asked how much is enough – “just a few more.”
I did sell a few, one to Luke and four to John Wayne. John Wayne even gave me a special order that I filled after I got home. I only had about 20 with me at that time, maybe if I brought more poses they would have sold better.
Selling at OTSN out of my room or in Atlanta at the club flea market was always a blast for me, if for no other reason than to greet fellow collectors every year. These days I enjoy a little spending and attending for the sheer camaraderie. .. I sell my custom “MELD” playsets, etc. on ebay now …
I met Paul Gruendler in his own room many years ago at OTSN for the first time.
I met him again at OTSN last year in my own room. Paul, I was the roommate of Bill Skinner, whom you seemed to know quite well (you and Paul appeared together in a photo of several collectors which appeared in Playset Magazine) and you were in the room for several minutes going through tubs of figures, talking to me and Bill both.
Yeah he came in my room too and took some pictures I think. I never saw the results so I may be imagining things.
Yeah sound like we need some of you guys here as dealer in east coast too.
We need new items and fun
Wayne,
No problem most of them aren’t going anywhere any time soon.
Other then packing, unpacking, packing, unpacking , packing and unpacking again, I enjoy shows. Even if I don’t sell anything or buy anything I still have fun. I mean usally do a little of both, but they are fun anyway. Where else could you see a cast of characters that make up the toy soldier community? Well, maybe a trailer park, but it’s still fun.