Expeditionary Force Update
We have received Expeditionary Force latest of their plans. This Expeditionary Force Update should clarify a lot of the questions that have been going in the Comment Section .
World War Two Plans
The plans for the WW2 era are as follows:-
European Theatre – 1939 to 1945, Battles in France, Germany, Russia and the Balkans will be in 60mm.
We have already released Germans (1939-1944), Americans (1944-1945) and Free French (in American supplied uniforms). The next items planned are late War Germans (in camo-jackets and ankle boots, 1943-1945), and then the Battle of the Bulge (in winter great coats). Further expansion to the range will be for the Eastern front with Russians and actions in the Balkans (Chetniks and Serbs).
We have already invested in this size (tooling and inventory) and have a
sizable customer base for it and, will continue to support the range: 60 WW2 range.
Pacific War – 1937 to 1945, Battles in China, Burma and the Pacific Islands will be in 54mm. This is due to popular requests from a couple of retailers in Europe and the US. As we have not yet invested in anything for this range, we will do this in 56-58mm for the 54 PW range. The range will include Japanese, US Marines, British Commonwealth (in Burma) and Chinese forces.
North African Desert Campaigns – 1940 to 1943, Battles between the Italians, German (DAK), and British Commonwealth (Desert Rats) will be 56-58mm:
This is also for the same reasons given above for the Pacific War.
Those are the plans as of this date.
Other Plans
The major periods planned for 2016 are Colonial Wars (Zulu-Boxer),60mmNapoleonic Wars (1812-1815), and Wars of the Roman Empire.60mm
The Zulu War is in production phase and should be available by May 2016.
Supplementary sets for existing ranges for 2016 includes Persian Scythed
Chariots (just released, in late-March 2016), Persian Immortals in Robes (prototypes done), Ancient Greek Artillery, Medieval Peasant’s War, ACW Infantry in sack coat + rolled blanket, and WW2 late war Germans.
Size-wise, all soldiers from Ancient Egypt to Medieval Knights (pre-gunpowder periods) will be in 60mm; Renaissance to modern (gunpowder eras) will be in 58mm (except for WW2 European Theatre which we have committed ourselves to 60mm).
Hope the above is helpful.
Cheers,
Scott
Tragic that the European Theatre of WWII will be stuck in the over sized scale.
I will be forced to not buy them.
But all the 1:32 WWII figures, I will buy 100%.
All do I agree is personal choice of course and we got/buy what we like as we wish.
I understand that in the plastic general blog you have among the nice collection u show I see a large selection of 65+ mm brands listed. Such Elastolin-70 mm, Oliver(former Pech hermanos) Japanese 65/70 mm ,Aurburn 70 mm ,Ideal 70 mm ,Bergen 65 mm and others
So may be they could match with those you have as well as separated selection dioramas.!!??.
You once said “we should all contribute and support all investing this hobby!!”
So I think adding the large EXF to your existing sets of same scale will help.
My thoughts!!!
Best ..
I really like the sound of some of these upcoming figures, Especially the Medieval and Ancient figures of which im a Big collector, As ive mentioned before i would have preferred the figures to be in 54mm scale but it seems that 60mm plus scales are very much now in vogue. If the figures are exactly 60mm or slightly under i will buy them, However if they stray above 60mm im afraid i will be forced not to buy them as they will not fit in with my collection, But lets wait and see.
I have brought all the EX-Force Medieval English Knights and they were more like 57mm/58mm which is fine. So i Hope that these upcoming figures are of a similar scale.
Well the EXF are a bit confusing too.
The European ww 2 last 3 sets are claim as 60mm but definetelly none is under 65mm.
Greeks/macedonian and persian around 62/63 .They rare taller than conte greeks.
So I guess those wanting exact better wait x some pictures compere before buy then.
Is the best sugestion as their way of scale is witin but not close or enough.
Observe how in these news they said in the
54mm range but the. Point out 56/58=!?
A bit tricky there.
Intersting they will do peasant medieval wars type figures plus renaissance !!
What wars of roman empire he is refering too??
🙂 🙂
The toy soldier market is small enough as it is. All this excessive fussiness about having everything in the exact right scale (i.e., the one Aldo and Hatley want, or “I won’t buy it”) will be the complete death of the hobby.
When a maker like Exp. Force makes a wide, interesting range of plastic figures in the most popular current scale, and it doesn’t sell, I don’t think the maker then concludes he should start over and try to make everything again in the less popular scale. Instead, what he does is simply discontinue operations in ANY scale.
Our hobby today isn’t big enough for this “I won’t buy it because ….. (fill in the blank)” mentality.
I actually like Erwin’s philosophy: I have my 54mm armies, and I have my 60 mm armies, and sometimes I can even artfully combine elements of both.
I faced this issue as a child with all the varying Marx ranges in different scales, and I think as an adult I can figure out how to handle it again.
Hi Don hows it going mate, As you can probably tell im very set in my ways at 54mm scale because as i mentioned before i grew up with this scale for decades and ive accumulated a Fantastic collection of several Thousand figures, I appreciate that a lot of people like yourself dont care much about scale but some of us do.
Let me point out that i think most of the figures that have and are coming out recently look Great, But Personally and its just my opinion i dont like the bigger scale.
Now i dont plan on buying any of these larger figures but if you and many others want to collect them and either put them with your 54mm figures or have them completely seperate that’s fine with me, And as a long time and passionate Toy Soldier collector i want the Hobby to keep going strong forever, However if the trend is to carry on making 60mm plus figures im afraid that will kill off my collecting days. I think most figures should be kept at the same scale and that’s my opinion, But im just one guy and im sure the Hobby can survive without me.
Popular and unpopular is a very subjective way of thinking as we are all different.
I would say that no scale is popular as it can clearly be seen that no current manufacturer can make any scale work for 100% of the collectors out there.
54mm is popular with me and 60mm isn’t , others feel the opposite is true.
Buying a product to support a business that doesn’t make a product of interest to me is these economic times is nonsense. It is up to you of course if you want to waste your hobby money on buying stuff you don’t want to support a company.
I have talked to many of the current makers and they have the attitude that they are making what they want because it is their money that is being outlayed. That’s fine but don’t complain that the product doesn’t sell because they haven’t asked what customers want.
So I’m in the ‘I won’t buy it because you don’t make what I want’ camp 🙂
Of course is your money too as producer decide too is theirs.
I agree in that ,not doubt!!
Problem is they got the more money in their pocket and they invest much more. If EXF decide continued run as I predicted long ago in the large scale in most but few that actually will be in the odd 56/58 mm scale it definitely tell me(They are selling).Not complaining =why not selling!?.
I think LAD ,TSSD,Russian new main brands “:that run aprox to 60 mm rather than 54” and others had come to that conclusion after their sales too!!?
But there likes for each and always will be items we will not buy and won’t waste our money. I had done it too. I collect all eras from prehistoric to future. Many are more limited ,great x then as more money to spend in a less diverse collection but also run in the long wait for their particular figures and scale to come.
So every body will have always some pro and con…
I think LOD particular try defineteely to match where atlantic left off and right after CONTE only Spartan plus observe eraly Macedonian/perssian EXF scales and went x.
Ancient 54 mm in vintage are very few, in fact less than big scale.
In new ,it was CTS that start and stop point blank after two sets and then HAT come with a lot of then to stop in 2011 .
I’m wondering why they stop ,maybe the budget,not good sales or actually profit.
Companies that produce HO and 1.35/1.32 make more profit out smaller than taller figures as save tons in plastic plus make larger diverse mold cavity sets per army. And gamers buy bulk armies versus most of us- one or two sets per army in many cases.
NO, the death of the hobby will be when there is no standard with scale.
Every time these guys create a new scale they cut thier market in half!
I’ve been building my 1:32 WWII world now for 35 years, now we have to start making 65mm tanks too? Why not 70mm? This will hurt the hobby.
There is not standard w scale long ago!!!.It always been scales all over place as Marx and all old companies did.
Gamers hobby will be there as hobby x long’s.
Is another mentality-world.
Toy soldiers collectors are long ago reducing, because age, generation interest and else nothing to be with scale production.
Any figure in the 60 mm or near it is not at all 1.32 scale !-is bigger than 1.32 it is about 1.30
EXF over 65/70 mm are much larger-about 1/29-1/28
So again I consider it three range sizes/scales to play around generally and put then separated not mix -blend!!
CTS armor were bellow 1.35 scale big time and many-most collector got then to play with 1.32 and 60 mm scale around…till few Airfix reissues ,BMC and 21C,FV appear in show.
So yes may be we will got some 1/28-1/29 scale armor-who knows!!
If we go too close and strict ,it will reduce possibility and harder x any collector to get the “perfect match”.
So do not blend, separate a or just stay with one till your match appear.-Simple.
Opinions are like you know what, everyone’s got one. Here’s mine: I am very disappointed in the decision to continue the ETO WW2 range in 60mm. It does not make sense to me that when the retailers who sell EXF product specifically request pacific war figures to be produced in 54mm that EXF would then not retool for the expansion of ETO figure range. So they have a customer base who likes the 60mm ETO figures, which is great for them, but imagine what they could have had if done in 54mm like the vast majority of pre-existing ETO figures and just as importantly vehicles that have been produced!
I collect a few different periods of figures and have stockpiled those which interest me. If a new range of figures comes to market that I have not previously collected in large quantities, and is produced in 60mm that interests me – I would have no qualms about purchasing. However, if I already have a large collection of 54mm figures and vehicles, and new figures are produced for that range in 60mm – I have no desire to ‘begin a new collection’ in this larger scale – it doesn’t make financial sense to me as a collector nor will the 60mm figures integrate with existing 54mm figures/vehicles. I won’t be purchasing, painting, or enjoying.
EXF has a diverse line of figures, and I do not believe that shunning their 60mm ETO WW2 range will cause them to discontinue operations. But I am very disappointed that they are now expanding the range for the ETO in the unpopular 60mm size, but going to scale down to 54mm for the PTO figures which again in my opinion, probably are a bit less popular than ETO range.
I wish EXF all the profits that they deserve, and am thrilled they are a quality new producer of plastic figures. But when customers and retailers make specific requests for scale issues they should be addressed for profitability sake. Also to produce figures from the same conflict but different theaters in 2 different scales – it just makes no sense to me.
Todd
The problem for a company is when they make a mistake do they correct it or not. The tooling can cost them $50,000.00 to $100,000.00 and they need amortized it. Second they already have collectors at the large scale and going to the smaller scale will tick them off. It is a no win situation for the company.
An example of a figure that should been changed was the Marx 45mm Davy Crocket when Marx decided to do 54mm figures.
I guess my point is that how many MORE collectors could they have had in that range? How much more profit could they have made? Who is going to make 60mm vehicles for the range? I would say that WW2 figures are the most dependent on vehicles, or any other period post WW2. Where there have already been many vehicles produced in 54mm. These facts would tell me they left alot of profit on the table.
Maybe Exforce will make 60mm vehicles for ETO as there were more used in that area than North Africa and the Pacific.
The WW2 figures for the different campaign would generally not be used together, so making the best of a bad situation will make some profits. If they do US troops for North Africa you can still do some ETO for the Italian Campaign 🙂
Well there something odd in a set they did.French
Historical the Adrian helmet was pretty much used by French armies of free forces in the North Africa theater and early Italy invasion as American and British helmet were more available they swap immediately and start using it.It is most common see French using American helmet from 1943 till end in Europe on war documentaries and pictures with except of few very late militia formed by advancing liberating allied armies that carry the French original Adrian helmet mix with still old uniform of French army, not American.
In Africa half of French surplus headwear were hats and colonial leather helmet, not Adrian helmet also. You can see documentaries of FFL using it often versus the Adrian helmet. There was a lack of the old helmet for new French every day growing recruits after 1943 in allied army, British and then American helmet were immediately ordered to cover this.
Wile Vichy-not free French coastal forces on north Africa as most were original colonial forces did wear old French complete uniform with Adrian helmet and the main forces were indigenous-non European French from all over Africa with typical local headwear such as turban, fezzes and kepi.
I agree in use of African campaign figures for Europe, specially Italy and southern Europe
On the armor we will have too see ,interesting they apparently mention siege ancient artillery!!? on future release…
They didn’t “leave ANY profit on the table”. Had they made their products in 54mm scale — seldom used at all anymore — they would have had an even greater number of collectors yelling that the 54mm figures don’t match their big Conte, TSSD, and CTS collections.
According to some of our current collectors, the producers NEVER get it right. Whatever they make, it should ALWAYS have been something else.
With this attitude, we can see the imminent demise of our hobby.
Don is not that bold, only few of us here throwing rocks!!!.I bet they had done profit and making more in the big scale,your point are valid.
Still time will decide.
EXF have a profit in their 40 mm gamers too, eventually if they do not go well, just stop x time and continued later.
One thing is clear they got way more money to invest that all around making figures/else now.
Russian makers most cases are making a lot sets but very high priced in most and very limited run,their sets are not redone x long..
With ext of MARS may be!
I will buy EXF till end, I like it, many are doing, and enough support with us x now;does who not buy ,have the right I think!!and also some other choices around too, who knows what future bring. There some observing this forum and may be will bring the 54 mm back to line !?.
For now as you said I do as you did back in time when Marx ,ideal and many other have so many different sizes.
play and mix match or separate ..have fun with toys as children…
wonder if making a toy show to play between us will be something fun!!!.
Of course we will have to separate scale fans to avoid real battles in the field.
I’m joking guys…
Well, on a more cheerful note, I expect to be at the Midwest Toy Soldier Show in something like 48 hours or so, and will see people like Ed Borris and Mike Kutnick.
I really wish I could get to the British Isles to meet people like Les White and Darrin Hatley.
Or to the East Coast to meet people like Erwin or Bill Nevins. Or once again to run into Paul Stadinger.
But these days I’m stuck here in the Midwest.
Well maybe it’s a matter of semantics Don…Because you mention CTS, Conte, and TSSD, which comprise the bulk of my collection. The EXF are even larger, and they don’t mesh well with the aforementioned makers. Not to mention the FOV or 21st Century vehicles of which I have about 50 of. I don’t have any complaints about the other lines of figures – my beef is only with the WW2 range as previously stated. Erwin I also have your Panzer and it is close enough that I don’t mind. I am not a 54mm purist, as stated those figures above range from 54-58 and I am good with that. But 60mm is too big. I am not damning them or jumping up and down or being negative – merely stating why I don’t like them and that I won’t be adding them to my collection. Also I disagree about FOV and 21st vehicles, lots of collectors have hordes of these, despite fragility or expense. I also do not buy the CTS vehicles, too small.
Lets not say ‘NEVER get it right’, lets say seldom get it right 🙂
and ‘should ALWAYS have been something else’ is pretty accurate based on opinions of most collectors (that I know) 🙂
Most of the current makers are producing ‘character’ figures instead of the common soldier, so it isn’t always of interest to buy more than one set, I think this is where ExForce have it right so that you can build up a nice group of advancing, firing, shield wall, etc.
for display.
This hobby already IS in decline if you haven’t noticed and will continue to be so as the majority of us aren’t as young as we used to be and when we go there is no one to follow 🙂
Don, I would normally welcome seeing you at a Toy Soldier Show in the UK ,but I don’t travel so well nowadays with ongoing health problems and the main shows are in London, which is 6 hours on a train ! However if you feel like a chat about our hobby you can email me direct, Paul will give you my email address. Always happy to correspond and exchange views 🙂
I will see that Don gets your email.
I have noticed the decline, it is not only in our hobby but many others. I have never worried about my collection as an investment only as an enjoyment.
Lots of companies leave money on the table. One phone company did not carry the I phone while others did leaving a lot of money on the table until they finally added it on to their inventory.
In armor I forgot the BMC odd Sherman(as was done with rare cannon and covered machine gun front ) was x 60 mm ,same in Amtrak , wile the K tiger was in smaller scales when compare with Sherman.
So there few already done to match the giants out there x now…
I too have plenty FV and 21 century but most collector could not afford build platoons of each model as now specially 21 century become harder to get and FV price are up not down.(range from $ 50-80 ) per piece, not counting shipping unless you got some rare deal..
Fragility is something brought before by many in this forum and others, not me. If you just slight miss drop one ,pieces come apparat-is true;also the fact of in case such Forces of valor with battle holes shots depicted and same chassis damage(How many same will you put in same scene with same damage on it!?).They were meant as replicas first time. Not as CTS, mine or BMC and Airfix=more in the toy-play range type.
Yes there some us got obsessed and amaze a lot them, but many can not ,neither like them because reason they mentioned.
I my self not worry about fragile issue too much, but price now x hem had become an issue, beside the line stop long ago in both and most done are 1943-forward model with few preview years model only
Still FV figures-germans,american and 8th are in the 60 mm range, not 54 mm !!
I clearly see the EXF way over the 60 mm, they are in the 65/70 mm line;that is the main issue, but still some match up there such elastolin,ideal,aurburn and others could be match next to them.
I understand those will not buy and simple it is their choice as I had stated. For every body their like and colors to choose from of course.
That EXF is not making money with the big scale!!?.Not see that all,definetelly they are in to it because is working-giving money back
To be honest I never thought AIP colonial wars(most European armies conflict) would be a good sale here in US and they did sold well.
Their figures were in the classic 1.32 scale and simple designed nice sets, till gradually reducing poses per sets and so on .The quality never drill me as very simple detail and less true 3D poses dynamism, weapons were crude designed in most. Still they sold by billions, they still does around as massive over produced.
As fact I think AIP sets are the most numerous per company after Marx I think in military sets along I mean . They had cover 28 wars/conflicts and about 2 to 10 sets per war with out counting color variation and playsets. After may be HAT with over 47 different sets and A call to arms with Airfix!?
Now EXF are about to be near both in amount different sets ,about 45 with out counting variations options in a much short time expand production that AIP,CTS ,HAT and others.
Unfortunately CONTE was coming fast but very disorganized and left many wars half way with out opposite armies in many cases.
To produce so fast rate they do. EXF has to be making money…
If observe well ,the said will do 56/58mm x the 54 mm range!!!.Those figures will still accommodate with their large scale in the 60 or more done as will not be down to 54 mm exact .It is an smart in between move.
WW 2 armor done in near 1:32.who?
Forces of valor and 21 century.
Many never like them as too costly and fragile ,beside FB are more close to 60 than 54 ,same in their figure range.
Airfix only three models?.
And in reality airfx Panzer IV is x 60mm
CTS are in not way any were near 1:32.
So far only one is done in true 1:30 is..
Mine.! 🙂 🙂 🙂
When is your next AFV going to appear?
If read well…
In fact they will keep up most in the tall scale but few from ww2 if ever done will go to 56/58!!?? X the 54 mm range,that is in the up size.Meaning smart moove to still acomodate w larger series done and continue to be done,not down to 54/55 to go with old marx and airfix style.
Like I said before ,they won’t shrink back.Too much money and as admin said will let all who had bought their largers scale down.
Is logic move.They do not go x 1000 customers.They sale to retailers such HB.MICHIGAN,CTS.TSC and many others that had already bought bulk quantities and they sale then well after.
Gamers hobby is one of main buyers from EXF he provide then with the 40mm scale he do and now buying from this line
We here talking are not the only ones…
We are a mini fraction.
I predict there will never again be ANYTHING produced in true 54mm. EVERYTHING will be either slightly below 60mm, slightly above 60mm, or right at 60mm.
Those who can’t live with that will just have to settle for vintage stuff. You will have to forego all the newer production, which is too bad, because it is quite often superior in quality (sculpting, detail, and historical accuracy) to what was produced in the 1950s and early 60s.
But for the real 54mm scale purists, I don’t know what you are going to do for your tanks and buildings —- everything Marx did in those items was under-scale to its actual figures.
Luckily for Louis Marx, kids in that era exercised their imaginations and were not prone to announcing “If it doesn’t exactly match the previous releases, I won’t buy it!” Of course, if kids or Louis Marx had actually thought in those terms, we wouldn’t have had 54mm to begin with, since that scale itself was a change from Marx’s earlier 60mm scale, which itself was a change from the even earlier 45mm scale.
And we wouldn’t have had any 54mm Fort Apaches, since that would have involved a change from the earlier 60mm Fort Apaches. And we would not have had the Marx Blue and Gray sets, since those were out of scale to the earlier 54mm Alamo sets.
I’m grateful we’ve got great production coming from TSSD, LOD, CTS, and Expeditionary Force. I vote that we don’t kill them by refusing to buy their products. If they don’t survive, I guarantee that no new manufacturer of comparable quality will arise to start making new stuff in 54mm.
Speaking of toy figures in 45mm, 50mm, 52mm, 54mm, 60mm, etc., etc., etc. and “real life” dimensions:
If Barbie (Doll) were a real woman:
– she would be 5’9″ tall and weigh 110 pounds.
-her Body Mass Index would be 16.24, which fits the weight criteria for
anorexia.
-she’d have a 39″ bust, an 18″ waist, and 33″ hips.
-she’d wear a size 3 shoe.
-she would have to walk on all fours because of her proportions.
JUST A THOUGHT………………….
In reality here are three category scale.(just x WW2 )please. And it is an aprox by memory so I may be off a bit, just to give some idea guys please!!!!!!!!!
50-54 mm range AND less-such Airfix,marx,matchbox,timpo-solid and some swapoped,Lone star,revel,britain,herald,early CTS,italeri,DGN,chinese made and HK made,Steve Weston,early BMC and many others.For this the under scale CTS armor are the best aprox match.
57-60 mm scale .Marx WOW reissues and vintage,cherilea,charben,conte,tssd,Austin,new CTS sets,DULCOP,JEAN hoefler(Some runs in the 55 mm scale),LIDO,MPC,tim mee-Processed plastic,
Some Crescent…Atlantic,cofalu,starlux,new Russian companies,waterloo 1815 Italians sets,Timpo swapped such German are not at all 54/56mm but 58/60 mm easy,
later BMC pacific theater sets and many others
65/75 mm scale.MARX taller few sets base in 12″ poses in some,all European such nardi,GPS,,oliver-pech hermanos,comansi,jecsan;American brands such as aurburn,ideal,bergen,Elastolin ,new EXF and others.
Some times you can mix some between in large scenes but as stated before if figures are too close each other not good as one person could be much bigger than other but weapon need to stay around same length. With armor put the taller figures at front and move vehicles farther back with matching poses next to it.
If all above is too hard to do, just separate the three range series scales aprox in three “Separated” collection RANGE STYLE.
If you do not like this still;just don’t buy the ones you do not like or collect at all!!
Simple and out..
Eventually some will come with your match scale. There few there as me crazy to offer and produce but also cautious in the so reduced profit hobby…
Once again it comes down to how you want to spend your money. let’s face it most companies that make even alleged 54mm they don’t match up with other companies that make 54mm anyway. For example take a CTS 54mm Mexican and stand it next to a Marx 54mm Mexican, while the height is close, the CTS Mexican is thicker and a wee bit taller, the legs are longer , the head is wider etc etc. However, they are passable if you don’t study them too hard. The same with Marx Marines and GI’s , the Marines are all robust while the GI’s are skinny in comparison. I’m sure most of us can live with that though. There are many companies that come real close to matching competitors in size and others that do not, you simply buy the ones that suit you best. We are never going to have that perfect world. As Billy Bob said in the movie Bad Santa, defecate in one hand and wish in the other and see which one fills up first. ( he didn’t say defecate, but you get the gist.)
WOW ed ,what take so long to enter the ring!!!??LOL!!
Your right and agree….these are toy figures, to play and have fun, some are very fragile…
do not throw them please!!!
I never fight in the prelims, I wait for the main event. Besides, in this discussion all you can ever hope for is agreeing to disagree. As they say, some battles are better left not fought.
Lol!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Hi again guys this is the last time im going to mention anything on figure scales as im even starting to bore myself, But ive really opened a can of worms here haven’t I, Ok 2 points i want to make.
1st point is remember i said that growing up in England in the 70s and 80s i only had access to British made figures which were exactly or close to the classic 54mm scale apart from a few figures, So thats all i new until the internet came along and i saw all these other wonderful figures from around the world including Marx with its varying scales.
And lastly the 2nd point that im obsessed with figures being exactly 54mm as ive been accused of. I dont mind scales from say 48mm up to 60mm But ive noticed that figures are gradually getting bigger and bigger up to 65mm and even more, And for me that’s too big and i don’t like it, But that’s the way it is so Good luck on all you guys that don’t mind this but i will pass on them and look out for 60mm and less figures. Thanks and im sure if i met you Don we would get on Great.
That is your right and privilege. right now I have passed on EF due to cost and having to glue them together.
Hi thanks for your comments and ive enjoyed discussing this subject and getting a big debate about it, Nothing wrong with that. Thanks Guys.
Thank you Darren ,you make us sweat here ,but definitely a lot fun!!!It always nice to discuss in nice way our differences.
I love the sculpting of ExForce but they have been, by and large, a disappointment to me. I bought their entire first range of ACW figures to find them really too small to really fit in with my other figures, I’ve bought several boxes of their Persians and they are okay against my Conte Spartans, but it will take some time (and expense) for me to build a large enough Army to field against my Spartans.
There are two things that put me off on Ex Force:
1) Scale – I’m not a purist for 54mm or 1/32 scale but I do want my figures to be close enough in size to be believable; it’s not a lack of imagination I think – it’s just wanting a scene or pic to look right. Sometimes, I can take varying sized figures and position them in such as a way they add perspective and give the illusion of distance. But there is a point the figures don’t fit.
I’ve been playing with and collecting toy soldiers since 1961 – in that time I’ve kind of narrowed my preferences down to two scales. I’m too old to start collecting another scale.
2) Price. By itself, it might not be a deal breaker, but with rising prices and my budget for figures, the scale issue makes the price of the figures prohibitive for me. I’m all for supporting manufacturers and encouraging new production, but I can’t see paying the price for figures I don’t want. If that makes me an “evil” or “selfish” person who will be responsible for the death of the hobby, I can’t help that. But I refuse to be made scapegoat because – again – I’m not going to spend money needed for other things on figures that don’t fit my tastes or peculiar wants. Freedom of choice – it’s vital to the market system.
For those of you who don’t mind the scale creep I say more power to you and enjoy their figures; they are some beautiful sculpts. I wish I could use them, if they fit the rest of my collection I’d swallow the price. But I’m not going to feel guilty for not buying them.
As far as voicing my opinion, well how else can we let the producers know how we feel and what to produce? Our opinions in forums like this – and sales are all they have to go by. Sales will tell them whether a set is popular or not, but will not tell them WHY. I hope my criticism is taken as constructive as it is meant to be. I love their figures and hope their Napoleonic series will be in a size (scale is a dirty word or obsolete term I guess) I can use as that is one of my favorite eras to collect. If so, I will gladly fork out my bucks for them.
Most big producer such as EXF.They heard more to main store owners, not particular collectors as they go for big bulk buyers/sales. Not particulars collectors who most time buy not direct from them but from retailers selling his product and in small quantities ..
You have a valid point in prices and it will go up eventually in all sets unfortunately as..
Chinese are becoming more aware and start increasing producing cost, they already had done so
Most maker made them in China-so they know depend on them.
Cost imports and fees increase a lot at port levels
Some of the limited producers such Russian firm are creating a rare wrong view of possibility to sale figures at high price. They had done and sold plenty sets at very high priced-over priced in my opinion of PLUVIUS .
These could give wrong signals to few wondering .That is why I campaign against price off limit all time. I think is abusive and not right that a new produced figure unpainted plastic cost double or more than many vintage around.
Again prices and choice of scale is only but yours to decide.Once again I do not discourage and hope some one along the line is coming with the scale=54mm and beyond. I do collect that too of course..
Exforce have stated the Napoleonics will be 60mm. So they should fit with something, maybe not AIRFIX or HAT 🙂
If they produce a complete range , which looks likely, then it won’t matter as you will want ONLY Exforce in your collection 🙂
I’m interested to see what their cavalry will be like, something not well covered in Toy Soldier size.
I’m taking a hopeful wait and see attitude. Most of my Napoleonics are from HaT and Airfix (both you mentioned – LOL), though I do have some Barzo and have even painted some Marx 60mm Mexican War figures up as Alamo Mexicans – I can make that work with proper placing and such. But if the guys are even larger than Marx 60mm, it would definitely give me pause – and that is a heartbreaker as the formality of poses that kind of set one back in the WW2 series (I didn’t mention that and the parade ground uniforms as I didn’t want to come off sounding too critical, but I agree – but it wouldn’t be a deal stopper for me; after all, the Marx GIs were kind of clean, too – agree with you on the Marine MG team – and how about the guy reloading?) what was I saying?
Oh yeah, the formal poses would work well for the formation style warfare of the era – and one can always do something to put enough variety to make the scene “live.”
So, my thumbs are crossed they are not too big.
Another thought right after I posted – it seems to me there is almost a conscious effort to make their figures more compatible with metal figures than the “traditional” or even newer plastics?
I’ve been so inspired by this discussion that I rushed down to Rick Berry’s Michigan Toy Soldier Show this morning and —- taking Wayne W.’s suggestion —- purchased two boxes of Ex Force Persians to go with my Conte Spartans. Finally —- some compatibly scaled opponents to Conte’s outstanding Spartans.
I was so enthusiastic about Conte’s Spartans when they came out I ended up getting nearly 300 of them, thinking that was such an appropriate number, even though they were kind of expensive. Now the ExForce Persians are priced at just about the same price per figure — I wonder if I’m locked in to have to get 10,000 Persians to match the 10,000 Immortals? But at ExForce prices I don’t have to worry — it will never happen.
Just as an aside, the ExForce figures are requiring too much gluing to ever make me completely happy.
I’ll see you there Don, I’m going to Texas this year, I hope. I can’t wait to see how this new show pans out, I’m hoping for good things. It will be good if it’s not in a failing neighborhood like the Indy show. If it doesn’t snow.
Got my first report from Lafayette, there are only 28 rooms per floor at the hotel and there are 68 rooms reserved for the show, so far. No idea how many floors there are.
The hotel has at least three floors.
All I know is that I piddled around making room reservations until about 10 days ago, only to find out the Best Western Motel was sold out. So Bill Skinner and I had to reserve a room across the street at the Econo-Lodge. We weren’t planning on room-selling this year anyway, but we’ll be arriving early Saturday morning to spend the day visiting dealer rooms before the show itself commences Sunday morning.
The show ended up with 51 dealers and 110 6-foot tables for the show. I spoke to Rick Keller by phone today (I was trying to reach his partner, Rick Lipp), and he told me they are very happy with the dealer response, and are now praying to pull the crowd in Sunday morning.
I should say Rick Keller didn’t literally say he was “praying”; that was just my interpretation.
Well that is very good news I think!!!
Well, I hope they draw crowds too, the last Indy show was noticeably light on attendance. I don’t think other dealers are going to be buying my conversions, I need real people.
Just saw something on the history channel on the French Foreign Legion and they wearing the American Helmet at Dien Bien Phu, or at least a lot of them were.
Ed ,Yes after the WW2 war .In (Indochina )the French used most time the US 1 1941 helmet old surplus from WW2 and also start swapping to new rare and odd M51 adopted a rare variation of WW2 1941 helmet. Both are easy confused in documentary images ,specially if using the net or cover.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod%C3%A8le_1951_helmet
The old Adrian helmet was complete discontinued in 1946 new French army ,but some colonial forces kept in storage and used some times.
We will have to see how they range the figures as not set is ever exact as other even after they call it 60 mm scale. EXF ww2 were 65 MM plus and they call it 60mm
If they do Napoleonic ,I think as previews they will cover the main armies and do cavalry. The test shots look around 1810/1812 French.
For 60 mm scale Napoleonic ,there are a lot to choose and match ,Dulcop,Jean Hoefler,Reamsa,the new made in china SUNJADE -distributed by supreme with 3 different new sets.Italeri Austrian run in the 60 mm aprox.Lintek Russians ,I manage get some good quantities are true 60 mm ,Black hat Russians-57/58 mm aprox ,Starlux that run from 60 to 64 mm aprox plus few others
For bigger than as 65 mm or so, less choices ,but still jecsan and same Sunjade above that run a bit over 60 mm ,Starlux ,Russian early 1805 sets done by Russian brand I forgot now too.
60 mm Charben British in mitre ,some WOW Marx Mexican could blend or used as Napoleonic too.
There always choices around for those with plenty figures sets to choose in their collection and more budget to spend!!I got all those above mentioned so I do need to buy those now ,so definitely happy with EXF large scale Napoleonic when they come and very welcome.
Their medieval and ancient cavalry I have ,run very same as same foot poses; they did match well when design figures and did not commit mistake as other makers do too downsize the mounted poses some times. But again ,it all depend in what they do and how far if not stop before as unfortunately every body does sooner or later.
First off, I am excited about the Pacific/CBI figures upcomming. Sounds like they will be in a size that should match up with TSSD, CONTE, BMC Iwo Jima, and Austin. Hopefully we will get some Japanese heavy mg. teams that I have wanted for so long.
Second, anyone who knows me knows I get excited about new WW2 figures. I was excited about the Ex-force Germans and G.I.’s until I saw two things about them. (1) I started hearing about their size and then saw pictures of them compared to TSSD and CONTE figures. There was a very noticible size difference. Now when I play, I have CONTE,TSSD, CTS, and do mix in some MARX Marines, Matchbox and a few MARX G.I.’s. The MARX Marines mix very well with TSSD, CONTE and CTS, and while the MARX G.I.’s are a little skinny, and some seem slightly smaller, they are not to badly off to fit in. (Plus there are some great poses that is hard to resist putting in my battle scenes.) To me though, the EX-force guys were too big to fit in and look natural. I am not a 54mm purist, but their size just wouldn’t fit in close enougth with my other figures. (2). The look of the figures. The poses looked kind of stiff. Not action packed like CONTE, TSSD, CTS, or even MARX figures. (In MHO the MARX Marine advancing Mg team are some of the best action packed figures they made.) They also look more like soldiers on parade ground manuvers on visitors day at the military base than gritty, dirty, men who have been in the mud and blood and hell of combat for weeks without stopping. Ex-force would do well to have their scuptor(s) look at a number of photos of men in WW2 combat and copy the way they look and are equipted before doing their next WW2 figure sets.
I have nothing against Ex-force. They do make a lot of great figures. And, as I said I am excited about their upcomming Pacific War/CBI figures. I just could not see paying my hard earned money on figures I would not play with. I am a low budget collector and can’t afford to buy everything. I buy what I can of what I want like most others I know. I do wish Ex-force good luck on all their projects.
BOBBYGMOORE
Bobby. I agree in most with you. I too when first come out ,criticize the uniform so nice done ,not realistic, also few odd helmets and hats/weapons as well. The poses were pretty much well done but in some cases looks like they were a bit too stiff for real action in the field.
But if we look back, CTS uniforms of later sets are nice done ,but their extremities and faces still run with a problem in sculpting.
So in both as well others makers there always some issues that prevent us invest-buy some times, price in EXF is a big stop x many and I complete agree.
My price set “recommendation x makers”,for figures new production at today market should not go over $2.50 per figure at all(I’m not counting shipping) as is out of hand and for that your trip to a show may help you reduce it if possible.
Still is nice to have a large producer making these for us, that few ,very few dare to invest as now we got LOD in the field here in US pushing hard and thanks God few new Russian more cheap sets coming, plus Austin,TSSD and CTS
EXF WW2 figures were not the best done from their range. I think ancient and medieval are the best from then so far.
Let see the next!!
On the Adrien helmet, the French police wore them in Algeria during that late 50’s war.
Yes ,not only Algeria,many other colonial region, Indochina too. The Adrian helmet was kept in many fire fighter units in France till late 60’s too.
As long as they stay within a reasonable scale, I will buy!
But their Germans and Americans were a desaster and they should NOT continue down that path!
You watch how the sales play out when they do the 1:32 scale figures?!
In my opinion I do not see they were a disaster..
I’m excited about all of this but let’s put this in a time frame. Do you know how long all of this will take? Years. We all know many things can happen so let’s not get all giddy quite yet.
Gary
Well EXF released 6 ancient , 6 medieval and 3 WW2 in just one years
Actually 4 American/French sets in 8 variation and 4 German sets in 8 variation.
Medieval 6 sets in 12 variation.
and 4 ancient in 12 variation in 2015 along
So that made 18 sets in 40 different variation of poses/helmets/weapons sets in 1 year only!!! .That is quite a large selection-accomplishment I think.
This years so far in may/June they will come with Zulus and British-boxer sets plus chariots. That least are just 8-10 sets
I do not see taking too long at that speed…
If you guys keep defending a non standard scale, it will result in the death of the hobby.
If someone produces a great set, in standard scale, 95% of everyone who collects that period will buy.
If someone produces a great set out of scale, 50% of the collectors will buy, resulting in lost money, resulting in the cancellation of the toy line. Simple.
There are two standard scales for WWII (AIRFIX*DEETAIL* 21st. Cent* ITALERI)
and (CONTE * TSSD* ENG BASS)
Best of luck to stubborn companies, its their money.
Did I say 50%? I take it back, more like 30%.
My sentiments exactly Christian. I was/am as disappointed with EXF WWII as you were. It was like coming down Christmas morning as a kid and not seeing the number one item you asked for when I saw the size of the Germans and Americans. At EXF prices who could afford to start all over with a new scale. I think all the previous vintage 60mm figures pale in comparison as far as detail to the EXF WWII.
EXF medieval and ancient are not at all compatible w CONTE scale,sorry.
They are from 65mm to 70 mm that are more compatible w LOD ,TSSD Romans and barbarians,FORCES OF VALOR ,IDEAL,AURBURN,ELASTOLIN,TUDOR,BERGEN /BETON,OLIVER,JECSAN,COMANSI,TIM MEE,PECH HERMANOS among others.Some no longer reissues,many are still recast and easy to get.
So in reality are 3 range.
52mm/56 mm apro=1:32=Airfix,marx.matchbox,Britain..
56mm/60 mm sample CONTE and WW 2 TSSD,ITALERI,MARX WOW,later CTS..
And 60 mm and up .Sample,most EXF.LOD,and all above listed.
Those porsentage nice numbers are base in no reliable reseach or source at all prooved.It is a personal estimates base in thoughts.
The tall scale long ago was standard and used massive by many companies,just coming back again.:-) 🙂
Christian, what exactly is the “standard scale” you are referring to? HO? 40mm? 45mm? 52mm? 54mm? 58mm? 60mm? 65mm? 70mm? 3-inch? 6-inch? Because the hobby has had all those scales in successful lines. Even single producers like Marx have had major releases in every one of those scales. Then you add in Ideal, Auburn, Timmee, and Lido, many of which didn’t even fit into the above categories.
And what about Elastolin? Did Elastolin figures ruin the hobby for you because they weren’t in “standard scale” with Britains? Were you upset with Britain’s Deetail figures because they came on different bases than Timpo, and hence didn’t fit in with each other, even though they were technically the same scale?
Are you going to be angry when the TSSD Vietnam War figures come out and they aren’t in scale with the MARS Vietcong which have already been released. Are you going to be upset when they don’t fit with Timmee already-existing U.S. Vietnam era tanks, trucks, and jeeps.
I’m having difficulty seeing the logic of your position, or how you are ever going to be happy with anything, anywhere, anytime.
And if you are referring to a “standard scale” these days, that would be HO on one hand, and 60mm on the other hand. When it comes to soft plastic, those are the two scales which dominate current production.
You’re right, lets jump all over the map! Lets mix in MARX 6 inch figures too?
My point is valid!! If you can’t see that then there is no chance for the hobby.
Look at the train hobby? ELASTOLIN is a stand alone.
If these companies want to do well they must pay close attention to scale.
Christian, when TSSD announced their Vietnam line you expressed your enthusiasm. Are you now going to boycott TSSD’s Vietnam figures because they aren’t in scale with MARS’ newly released Viet Cong? Or are you boycotting MARS because their new figures weren’t in scale with Timmee’s Vietnam figures? Or are you waiting for John Stengel’s ACTION CASTINGS to set the “standard”?
I think, to be happy, you are going to have to do what Erwin recommends: blend them in as well as you can, or just have separate armies and set-ups in separate scales. I’ve been doing both for years, because with all the toy soldier makers out there — each one doing their own thing — I didn’t have any other choice.
Do you consider Airfix WWII figures to be the “standard scale”, which everyone else must conform to? Remember, Airfix itself was a relative latecomer to plastic toy soldiers, and certainly didn’t style or scale their soldiers exactly like everything else that was already on the market.
Apparently Ex Force — like Conte, Marx, Elastolin, Auburn, Timmee, Lido, Paragon, Britains, Airfix, and Timpo before them, is not going to consider themselves locked in to a particular style or scale just because one of their predecessors did it that way.
Conte was big enough that he put his own stamp on the hobby scale-wise and style-wise, and Ex Force is apparently going to do the same thing — just like Elastolin and Marx did.
So calm down.
I have not seen the new VC figures side by side with TSSD,
but since the VC were small people, I hope they made them smaller? I will consider TSSD a better scale standard.
Yes, AIRFIX is a true standard for 54mm (1:32)
Yes CONTE created a revolution with figures and re-established the new standard, but the hobby wont tolerate yet another new scale. Its just not compatable and too expensive.
Not all full sets of Airfix are true 54mm neither 1.32; many are 48/52 mm or 1.35 scale such as German paratroopers German alpine-set ,American paratroopers ,Gurkhas. Later modern post WW2 sets were in same range but SAS that were back to original true 1.32 scale.
ESCI is another classic sample of the one calling 1.32 scale and non true 1.32 scale .German and Screaming eagles were, Russian -soviet were very small scale-1.35 or incredible 48/51 mm . So samein the post WW2 sets in most cases. Not only stature but weapons/head difference too.
So that is a sample of how in same company- maker many ,not just one set were complete off compere with other in scale even after they call all under same scale and mm as Airfix call them 54 mm scale figures in their cases.But the hobby did not split, neither stop buying those sets or refuse too.
You do not have so jumpy and exaggerate, you know well is not what we mean. Do not take to extremes. I had repeated mentioned.
do not mix, separate them if collect all, they are not meant to blend with smaller scale
Train hobby stand along because is a complete different world, not reason to even mentioned, not sense at all other than want to bring another discussion of separated points and in fact not related in this toy soldiers/figures hobby.
Do you know that most European continental main markers were in most cases sets in the 60-75 mm scale? range Starlux,comansi,jecsane,reamsa,pech hermanos,rojas,clarainet,elastolin,marolin,nardi,res,gps,cromplasto-xiloplasto,Roma,Atlantic,jean hoefler even from UK ,Cherilea,charben,some of the crescent were taller than others sets too, and many more, still they too once a wile brought a small scale set, not much but they did.
Most collectors that have those and did appreciate the big scales as well ,now appreciate the big scale range and buy them in large quantities because match their old line, Where u let those collectors !!??
I know some dealers of main retail business in Europe, they carry and sale any tall Marx reissue scale more than smaller x some reason, they carry and sale most EXF since day one.
Steve Weston from UK did not went to match 54mm scale at all
He did it in the 60mm or above in many. I think one or two sets were in smaller range but rest were 60mm or taller.
I’m assuming EXF next they call 60mm production will be not too much over as previews WW 2 sets.
Still they will never get near the 54mm at all as will mess entire line they had done.
I doubt any body around today will have the investment $$ that EXF capable make around 18 differet sets(not counting variation sets) in less than a year.
I doubt too as Don said TSSD new vietnam will be smaller than 60mm,not counting bases.
So I doubt if those companies plus LOD,PARAGON,AUSTIN ,STEVE WESTON(listed as 1:30 scale) by owner and other are still in marked with EXF ,the hobby will died and people stop buying.
All above are selling as now and before and those making it are awere of they sales.
So definetely not the end at all.
Does any body who had see the STENGEL new figures could tell me what high the figures are please?
Will like to know what range he invest on!?
Best…:-) 🙂
Within a day or two I’m going to take a photo of Stengel’s new Lewis Armistead figure and mounted General Picket figure along with a few other brands (Marx, Conte, etc.) for size comparison, if somebody doesn’t beat me to it. I’ll send the photos to Admin.
Incidently, are the Marx Blue and Gray figures 60mm or 54mm? I’ve seen them listed as both. But they are definitely bigger than the Marx Rev. War, Fort Apache, and Alamo 54mm figures. On the other hand, the Blue and Gray sets came out AFTER Marx had downsized many of its playsets to 54mm. Was Louis Marx the prime culprit who started this now-current vogue of issuing different playsets in different scales?
And is the Marx galloping cavalry horse supposed to be 54mm or 60mm? Marx seemed to use it for both 54mm (Fort Apache 54mm, Little Big Horn 7th Cavalry) and 60mm (Cpt. Gallant, some Rin Tin Tin) sets. Also on the hybrid Blue and Gray sets. That’s probably why it doesn’t fit all that well on ANY of the figures.
I have to admit, however, the Marx 60mm Captain Gallant playset was always one of my favorites. And then when Conte REVERTED to 54mm for his new Beau Geste sets, I was slightly disappointed his figures weren’t compatible scale-wise or otherwise with the Marx, Timpo, Britains, Lido, or Oliver FFL which I had already collected. But Conte’s Foreign Legion figures were so great I had to have them anyway.
All in all, I’m inclined to agree with the article Erwin posted on the issue of scale: Even when figures from different manufacturers are the same height, they are often so different in body size, shape, style, sculpting, musculature, bases, etc., that they don’t work very well with each other.
One of the few “pure” matches was in the early days of CTS when it created it’s new line of Alamo Mexicans, and deliberately with malice aforethought tried to make them nearly identical to the size, style, and color of the earlier Marx Alamo Mexicans.
Hi Christian and Eddie im on exactly the same page as you guys except i collect Ancient/Medieval and Fantasy figures although i used to collect figures from all eras. We are not saying that all figures should be exactly the same size as ive stated before but it would be Great if all figures were within 50mm to 60mm scale so at least they would sort of all fit together because again as ive stated Human beings are different in Height to some extent. However the modern vogue of some of these companys in making figures in say 62mm to 70mm is without doubt putting me and many others off from buying these figures which i think is the wrong thing to do as they are missing out on sales from many collectors like me Christian and Eddie. So i would say to any of these companys that are reading these forums is to get back to figures in 50mm to 60mm or you are going to miss out on many more sales. By the way i know i said i wasn’t going to say anymore on this subject but i couldn’t help myself.
Darren.Welcome back!!!
Once again ,yes very important yours as well other feeling opinion.
I do too collect you scale as I’m very open and do collect from 45 to 80/85 mm but as stated before I separate then as by logic ,no way mix blend and always understood they were meant for separated ranges.
In your case as well many that are dedicated to specific period history and also non historical you collection expand is limited as well because the era covered.
So you also run in another problem that those collection less period does as well.
The problem of ;( Wait till a maker produces the era specific you need).
Ancient had become a bit more exploded now because movies such 300.second part ,Troy,new odd version mosses and so on with Ben Hur new version coming and others…So there you will get some sets coming after them like CONTE and EXF,LOD did.
Wile medieval are not as few sporadic movies had not create the excitement needed. Plus US collectors who comprehend a vast majority of buyers do not like too much either periods as not related to US history but some does as me as more in to history and or movies around.
Fantasy as you well correct pointed and mention had increased after the late 80’s with movies and after LOTR,Hobbit,Dragon movies ,games of thrones and other epics fantasy movies it had created a lot of fans too. Me one of them but in less scale..
So take in consideration always that as another stop in your line too.
So if the companies making the 54-60 mm scale in most are stoped producing ,something tell me they did not want make any more, some for money/profit issues, others x health of owner and so on.
But as far the 60+= plus made money and continued expand will be hard x some one to come along and do the other scale range as this hobby is limited, few competition and if I will-WOULD EVER come to market today making figures, trust me I will have to enter in the tall scale as TSSD,EXF and LOD because I know is there moving and selling. Any how I’m not in to figures as not my interest x now and will not enter.
But yes, I do to miss the 54 mm and hope some one as old HAT who was in true 54 mm and less or “A call to arms” to arms reenter the game soon to get more those guys range in my armies. They will come. But not in the companies making now, they will not change it back, they had invest in tooling as said and will not reverse back, they may go down a bit to a bit less than 60mm may be, but not any were close typical 54mm small range unfortunately.
Again I heard you and feel your opposition and desire too ,but I’m been realistic and try to move with the wave of those making now.
Lets hope we got some one soon coming with those range. “A call to arms “stop with last Normand’s set, but I understand it is due to lack of sales, not because scale but since they start making only 4 poses a set it had reduce the buys from them. They should go back to 8 poses per set I suggest.
I can not understand also why ACCURATE and A call to arms from UK never try WW2 sets that are popular. That will have increase their sets as their 1.72 range had some sets of WW2 I think!?
Last ..keep your voice up is always interesting to chat here.
My thoughts and opinion..
best..
Amen Darren. Thank you. My earlier post got deleted I think. I can’t find it. I would have invested around $1500 on the Germans and Americans from XF myself had they fit in with Austin, TSSD, and Conte. That is my “new” scale for WWII. I use Airfix, Marx, Matchbox, Revell, MPC, and CTS together, then Austin, TSSD, Conte and CTS (good balance between the two) as a second scale. Now XF comes along with a third scale for me where the kneeling firing pose is as tall as some of the others standing. That doesn’t work for me. Obviously, XF has recognized this or else they would not be doing the Pacific and desert fronts in my “new” WWII scale. In retrospect I would be willing to bet XF wished they had done their initial WWII in the “new” scale too.
Eddie White
Your email did not get delete by me. It was not in the spam folder which I am constantly checking.
I think it was under the LOD chariot thread.
What ever section it turns up it should have shown up. Spam filter is for all topics and goes into one place.. It is sad all the spam email pI have to delete.
You have to because it is very important to the survivel of our hobby!
Hi yes first and foremost i want this hobby to flourish and be as successful as possible, And if there are many people who are Happy with larger figures, Or who dont care if figures are getting larger then fair enough and good luck to you, But i think if all figures were more or less the same scale as ive stated 50mm to 60mm everyone will know what to expect and that all figures will fit with one another, The hobby will be even stronger in my opinion, Because as has been stated by me and several others. Many of us are dissapointed by these larger figures scale even though they look Great, And speaking personally I have decided i will stop buying any figures over 60mm unfortunately, Sorry.
AIP made more sets than any in this hobby in last 15 years or so.
They never cover Ancient, medieval and WW2 that are strong very popular eras. They did 54 mm range perfect and cover many wars of not much interest among US buyers and else. Yet thy had sold in the ten of thousand around world and still does.
Yes I know ,not are exceptional detail figures or poses but a very economic way to get nice descent armies I guess.
Did hobby survived with them!?Yes they did and still does.
This hobby is down and shows are less attended because other issues not related to scale at all.
Among them are:
Computer era ,eBay, old generation are tired, cost of living, cost increase of new production figures sets, new generation are way less interested and not coming to the hobby of collectors as should be,makers are less because all before mentioned scare and stop them to try invest money in a business that barely bring or generate much profit-revenue.
Aldo.
I had try to get a respond to you before in this forum regarding some detail I ask you but may be had been overlooked by you before.
Here I will try repeat it again.
I understand you do not collect at all the EXF size scale least in the WW2 range last done right!?They are too big for your scale range you collect right!?
So IDEAL,BETON,AURBURN,ELASTOLIN,STARLUX,OLIVER ,Pech Hermanos and others represented in the “Plastic General blog” that I understand is yours with nice depiction of pictures, combat display and great description by the way done; but using above mentioned full sets of figures in all in the 65-70+ range…
Would the EXF WW2 new sets match those???
Because they do with those marks/brands in may case .!?
So now we all have to start collecting, long out of production, super expensive products to appease a stubborn company that blundered?!
35 years of building a scale consistent world, tanks aircraft ect?!
Hell no!
Their mistake. They should cut their losses and NOT continue down that path of loosing sales and many of us missing out on product that otherwise hould have greatly inhansed our hungry collections.
Well u have those.so you do collect those.?? 🙂 🙂
Ideal is still reissue,elastolin WW 2 is still reissue,OLIVER WW2 japanese are still active.
IDEAL is an outdated product.
ELASTOLIN is an expensive vintage product.
and OLIVER is below standard junk.
Come on guys?!
still there and you gut them…
No, I will never buy them, way too large of a scale.
But I’ve always admired Elastolin.
Elastolin are been reissue by preisser ,price not paint range from $4 to 7 per figure!. Paint from $7-11.50 per figure.Sellers most are from Germany.
TS company -Delson sale then in that range price and actually less in bulk sets.
If you can afford Engineer Basetvich and Pluvius figures $7-10 aprox per figures as you had said I’m sure you can afford Elastolin former vintage being redone!!!
So not a problem about price for those who afford high mark figures…
It is a matter or like it or not. Nothing to do with price.
I’m not forcing you to buy just expressing what you said before and contradict later.
Still of course you have complete right not buy and complain as many are .it is your free will and I respect.
Wish look in your collection and campaign
Best….
YES Erwin, I buy Engineer Basetvich and Pluvius because they work perfectly with the larger of the two main WWII scales. I buy 3 of every set.
Great so not need mention “super expensive word” as before ,not because money ,is because you do not like it. Great x you !!
Don’t you encourage every one to buy those expensive sets!!??.So way said (not buy expensive vintage, that many are not as reissued and still around as I mentioned) to do same in other scale!!??
Did you see the contradiction !!??
It is simple…
Christian, you don’t really have to do anything. You can just sit and steam, if that’s what makes you feel good.
But Erwin has given you some practical, constructive suggestions.
Since you’ve been dying for some Vietnam War era figures, you will now have TIMMEE, MARS, TSSD, and ACTION CASTINGS. And guess what? None of them are in scale to each other!
Its sad.
And NO, I’m not steaming. I’m frustrated about a great oppertunity lost.
And just saying ” don’t buy it?” is the problem.
If we don’t buy, then the company suffers and maybe goes under?
Its like someone making another bad Star Wars film.
I didn’t have to be that way.
And Christian, since TSSD came out LAST of all the four Vietnam War manufacturers, are you now going to blame TSSD for screwing up your armies, since TSSD didn’t fall into line and just copy the earlier scales?
I guess you’ll be blaming Nick and Deanna because they didn’t first call the Ukraine to coordinate their product with what MARS was about to come out with.
See how silly the angry blame game becomes.
Whomever does it first and does it big, should do it right!
Whoever does it second should have the common sense like (TSSD did with CONTE) follow in their footsteps if they wish to create a healthy market or period.
Recent Vietnam era figures appear to me to have been done simultaneously by several manufacturers, so hard to work on scale. None had been established yet. But I bet TSSD is doing theirs in the standard “new” scale they and Conte established. I bet Stengel’s figures are similar to TSSD in scale too. Way different scenario than with Conte GIs and Germans out for over ten years along with TSSD WWII figures.
Trust me they won’t suffer because 100 or even 500 not buy it…So far here I can count with fingers does will not and I complete understand and of course you are entitle to a choice.
But do not try make this like a revolution as we speak x our self only not for rest of the world. Neither try convince or enforce to do opposite in others.
It looks like pushing for your agenda more than self opinion.
I never try discourage makers of 40/45 mm scale because I do not buy them most. It is heir line good x them…
So at least I see most main makers are in same scale approx making and selling from 2008 till now, that mean are selling and continued as every new company making bring same scale or around not 54 mm or less.
The ones making 54MM and smaller or around were AIP,HAT,A CALL TO ARMS,EMHART,IMEX,SOME ITATERI,WATERLOO and few others….Where are they now??Yet I miss them too because I collect same 54mm scale range or around too.
CTS was in the 1.32 early, not any more latest set are clear in the large size range. Even Barzso when change over from resin to plastic increase the figures easy to 60 mm. Robin hood/knights sets were perfect match of MARX 60mm knights and marry man not the 54mm Marx sets. They even made them in same reissues colors to match perfect .Why!?
They BARZSO revolution figures British grenadiers looks like giants next to early red coats done in resin. Wonder why too!!??
This blog call “toy soldier guy” that cover most and or only WW2/modern soldiers in plastic has some interesting thoughts and comment with nice pictures regarding the so call “”giant”” sets, makers and figures among many others. It nice done with very good simple information and pictures
I understand many of the figures in this blog-pictures are courtesy of “the Plastic General”!!??
In such blog many entire sets and collection of the 65 mm to 75 mm range are covered.
such as…
http://ww2pts.blogspot.com/search/label/Manufacturers%20-%20TSSD
http://ww2pts.blogspot.com/search/label/Manufacturers%20-%20Expeditionary%20Force
http://ww2pts.blogspot.com/search/label/Manufacturers%20-%20Ideal
http://ww2pts.blogspot.com/search/label/Manufacturers%20-%20Auburn
http://ww2pts.blogspot.com/search/label/Manufacturers%20-%20Oliver
http://ww2pts.blogspot.com/search/label/Manufacturers%20-%20Elastolin%20%2F%20Hausser
These photos are by my good friend Luis Orozco.
I’m the opinionated monster otherwise known as The Plastic General.
This great debate has inspired me to do a WWII scale guide.
And now I will.
Coming soon!!!!
The Plastic General
I know who is him Aldo .I like his site too,so I know you are ,that is what I posted!!
Best…
Christian,
If you can do a site similar to the ‘Plastic figure review’ that deals with the smaller scales that would be great. They detail all the issues with the figures that we discuss here and clearly show all the figures and all the poses. Tell you the height, sculpting detail, historical accuracy, etc.
This would be good for our sizes.
As always Erwin you offer Great advice and knowledge of our Hobby, Ok I will just have to go with the flow and grab any scaled figures that fit my collection and ignore the other larger figures.Fair enough At least it will save me a few Pounds.
Thanks Erwin for posting links to my blog.
I agree with much of what has been said on both sides of the argument. Surely, there are other larger figures that can be combined with the larger Exp Force guys, and yes, it’s good to be flexible in mixing scales that are close to each other. And yes, I also believe in supporting manufacturers so that they do more for the hobby.
At the same time, I also agree that when a manufacturer is considering a new set, it is a good idea to release it in a size that has the most compatible figures and vehicles. If they want to recover their investment, they are going to sell more sets this way.
I also agree that a manufacturer who releases figures that are smaller or larger than the mainstream, contributing to the fragmentation of the hobby and leaving money on the table. The comments in this thread make that point quite clear.
To me, the question is not whether they are doing something right or wrong. The question is whether they could be doing it better.
So here’s an idea. I am clearly unaware of many of the business challenges that a company like Exp Force faces when launching a new set. But if I were them at this juncture in time, what I would probably do would be to launch the first Pacific set in the new scale. Then I would wait to see how the market reacts, and if I see that the sales are large enough to offset my retooling costs for the ETO sets, then proceed to adjust those as well to the smaller scale. That way they wouldn’t have to walk away from the larger scale market without some evidence that there is a bigger prize in the smaller, mainstream scale.
At the end of the day, we all want to see manufacturers succeed so that we can get more of the figures we love, so it is in Exp Force’s interest to be in tune with what most of us want.
PS Christian, I really like your idea of having a scale guide. I think it would help to see figures side by side and encourage manufacturers to stay within the most common ranges.
Great idea. They could be panagraphed down maybe?
Thanks Erwin for posting links to my blog.
I feel like I am joining the party a bit late, but here are my 2c. I agree with much of what has been said on both sides of the argument. Surely, there are other larger figures that can be combined with the larger Exp Force guys, and yes, it’s good to be flexible in mixing scales that are close to each other. And yes, I also believe in supporting manufacturers so that they do more for the hobby.
At the same time, I also agree that when a manufacturer is considering a new set, it is a good idea to release it in a size that has the most compatible figures and vehicles. If they want to recover their investment, they are going to sell more sets this way.
I also agree that a manufacturer who releases figures that are smaller or larger than the mainstream, contributing to the fragmentation of the hobby and leaving money on the table. The comments in this thread make that point quite clear.
To me, the question is not whether they are doing something right or wrong. The question is whether they could be doing it better.
So here’s an idea. I am clearly unaware of many of the business challenges that a company like Exp Force faces when launching a new set. But if I were them at this juncture in time, what I would probably do would be to launch the first Pacific set in the new scale. Then I would wait to see how the market reacts, and if I see that the sales are large enough to offset my retooling costs for the ETO sets, then proceed to adjust those as well to the smaller scale. That way they wouldn’t have to walk away from the larger scale market without some evidence that there is a bigger prize in the smaller, mainstream scale.
At the end of the day, we all want to see manufacturers succeed so that we can get more of the figures we love, so it is in Exp Force’s interest to be in tune with what most of us want.
PS Christian, I really like your idea of having a scale guide. I think it would help to see figures side by side and encourage manufacturers to stay within the most common ranges.
Thanks Erwin for posting links to my blog.
I agree with much of what has been said on both sides of the argument. Surely, there are other larger figures that can be combined with the larger Exp Force guys, and yes, it’s good to be flexible in mixing scales that are close to each other. And yes, I also believe in supporting manufacturers so that they do more for the hobby.
At the same time, I also agree that when a manufacturer is considering a new set, it is a good idea to release it in a size that has the most compatible figures and vehicles. If they want to recover their investment, they are going to sell more sets this way.
I also agree that a manufacturer who releases figures that are smaller or larger than the mainstream, contributing to the fragmentation of the hobby and leaving money on the table. The comments in this thread make that point quite clear.
To me, the question is not whether they are doing something right or wrong. The question is whether they could be doing it better.
So here’s an idea. I am clearly unaware of many of the business challenges that a company like Exp Force faces when launching a new set. But if I were them at this juncture in time, what I would probably do would be to launch the first Pacific set in the new scale. Then I would wait to see how the market reacts, and if I see that the sales are large enough to offset my retooling costs for the ETO sets, then proceed to adjust those as well to the smaller scale. That way they wouldn’t have to walk away from the larger scale market without some evidence that there is a bigger prize in the smaller, mainstream scale.
At the end of the day, we all want to see manufacturers succeed so that we can get more of the figures we love, so it is in Exp Force’s interest to be in tune with what most of us want.
PS Christian, I really like your idea of having a scale guide. I think it would help to see figures side by side and encourage manufacturers to stay within the most common ranges.
Thank you for your respond and interest in this blog. The main reason I post your blog is to site some examples of matching partial sets around with new existing tall line range scale….Hope not a big issue doing it.
About matters..
Unfortunately is not only EXF in the actual market on this scale range along at all!!But pretty much most new companies are near or same way ahead.
TSSD,PARAGON,AUSTIN,LOD and others such latest CTS Korean war sets That come above the 57/58mm range in most few poses are indeed 62/63 mm. Last previews CTS German medical sets and others WW2 come pretty big ,much larger than early true 54 mm scale ww2 sets they did(you can not match a single CTS early WW2 German next to later unless you can said it is a 6.5 person next to a 5.2 aprox). Why they did it; to accommodate with new range of taller figures been made by others. They did not went down in scale to match old Marx 54,airfix,else.You see my point here.!?I’m not been pushy, at all please ; just realistic what is been going x some years now and advancing not going back.
So definitely the market is not new on this scale but already moving ahead fast and in many brands sets towards the particular range scale and not the other range 1.32 scale. So is not a point to accommodate one side or another as already the companies producing most sets are in the other=taller scale way.
It is a simple reality that has to be accepted. For companies such EXF and when making injection metal steel mold ,you can not wait x one set to see how sale in this hobby for a time and see results as usually the 4000 to 6000 sets per first batch production demanded by Chinese factory, won’t sale in less than a year and you want collectors not wait that long but get something else new coming soon. So the next set in the row has to be compatible and that is how most EXF set are out in the row in same range. Before EXF it was CONTE and in minor part BMC Japanese and marines that broke the rule of the old 1.32 scale produced x most WW2 sets when they did fist sets of WW2 in taller scale . BMC copied poses of K&C were sold a lot and collectors love them, they are big and taller than any previews Japanese ,almost as OLOVER 70 mm scale figures. Still it did not stop collectors ,I bet from the 54 mm range as well to buy them as most sure did find match in others such TIM Mee vintage all around ,Marx recast WOW ,Ideal-reissues and same BMC marines as well. All such brands companies easy to get figures at shows, eBay else. They bought it and adapted to others they got or had.
From there TSSD,PARAGON,AUSTIN produced their sets in actually taller than most CONTE series as CONTE did 54 mm FFL and Arabs too that ironical disappoint some collectors expecting to match the old Marx 60 MM and taller Arabs and FFL figures poses.
LOD just come last with the 1:30 scale or above 60 mm scale ancient figures I bet matching EXF ancient ,Atlantic ancient and CONTE Greeks tall figures already done and also following others success sales as no one can denied that above companies are selling their sets well from day one and had not kill the hobby neither split it in big time as implied. Most collector had adapted ,others not and some refuse, later buy as know can accommodate .
So if before mentioned companies had ever made a mistake ,long ago they would had change back and definitely had not change back at all but continued and expanding the line. Today few figures from CASTING-STENGEL were showed here as another proof of same range scale been followed not going down in scale.
I do collect both scales range ,smaller and between too ,but simple adapted to match each with each group. Simple practice logic I use ,otherwise I will have to just seat and wait when my 54mm range will come. So far is been very long over 15 years any new producer had done any close to Airfix,matchbox and Britain in the WW2 line in long range other few MAR new Russian sets and else.
AIP cover that scale but never went to WW2 ,yet they made more sets than any around in past 25 years and sold thousand and still does.
But did not cover the WW2 so popular line. Did the hobby died because of that!?
Did buyers stop because he did not make the so popular ww2 lines!?
Did Hobby split apparat!?
Not they did not stop buying, neither dived ,simple those only in one era did not buy from him wile new collectors era grew as AIP covered never before done wars.
They hobby is not divided, neither makers loosing money because scale. The hobby is moving with new range scale in directions out of field, like internet and or else, and if old generation are not buying is do to expenses, cost living and unfortunately passing and sad to said but is happening. New generation are fewer wile in the other hobby that uses soldiers(gamers)are still ok and actually growing. Yes prices has increased up every where in new sets. Some ,not all Russian limited sets are in the top ridiculous price , EXF are high mark too, still are plenty buyers for those.
In order to speak for splitting sides in hobby on scales as a fact and really have an idea of your and other vision if it would be affecting it .A Real-true field and well done research will have to be done, from makers with their sales and retailers in sales per set/brands inventory-sale to customers. They are one that will tell you how fast and good or bad sets and brands are moving ,not you or me of even 100 talking in this forum as you will never be able to get to the thousand of collectors in US , Canada, Australia ,Europe, South America and so on. In fact most do not even know these blogs and forum exist and many do not have time chatting here as we do. Neither going to 6 shows will give you any general idea.
Retail know what sale when you do a sales inventory versus overstock inventory and returns per item. If you know those fact per set, brand and companies from a well done investigation research with proof them you can come back and tell me the amounts and if affecting or not in how many collectors not buying or buying with facts.As we do not represent any big number at all in this forum neither speak for rest or others but our self.!!
Hope did not took too much time and made my point clear as it is a reality and actuality. Sad but true. I did not increase the scales neither want any one non happy at all,but is there and for some time already.
Best regards.
WOW! What an explosive and possanite thread!
I hope to make time to start from the top and read the whole thing!
I have a simple philosophy, if I like it or I’m trying to support someone’s endeavors I buy it, the size of the figures does matter to some extent, but not that much to me. It seems I end up converting whatever I buy anyway. Some people do the true 54mm dioramas while others do the larger 60mm+ dioramas, and I sell some of each. There are truly enough figures out there where you can pick and choose the size you like for almost any era. They have been making toy soldiers in plastic for over 60 years and the sizes have always been all over the place. It seems simple to me, you buy what you like in the size you like. If you really like the figures you buy them no matter what size they are. Sure it would be nice if everyone made the same size figures all the same height and girth with wonderful detail, but that’s not reality and it never has been. Toy Soldiers have never been a necessity, it’s something those of us that collect enjoy. We shouldn’t let the size of the figures some manufacture’s make spoil are fun. Grocery stores have all kinds of food, but we only buy what we want to eat and we bypass the rest, we should do the same with toy soldiers. It’s more or less the manufacturers choice what size he makes his product in and if he chooses an odd size he will suffer. We’ve all seen many companies come and go, the ones that are still around must have found what they consider a success formula and they are going to stick with that. Those who have not had a successful product have to go back to the drawing board or give up. You can drag a dead horse to water, but you can’t make him drink. It’s all business and the business world is a cruel place.
Agree with your very simple and logic observation Ed.
You all seem to be moaning about the size of them but you still go out and buy TSSD,CONTE also ENGINEER BASSEVICH,MARX,REAMSA,JECSAN also
COMANSI,ATLANTIC which are all over 1/32 scale what would you do if all the companies stopped making figures then you would have something to moan about my self and my brother are collectors with over eleven thousand figures and buildings of all shapes and sizes. We cannot see what the problem is with the size
James
Welcome, people are always getting upset over scale. (You should see the flame war going over it in the hobby Bunker forum.) My personal feelings is not everyone is the same height and I do not worry on the scale. I just want to have fun with the figures.
Agree and tired explain same all over many times, just that some will not understand diversity and a lot of choice out there in this hobby I collect from 45 to 90 mm approx. and do my dioramas according to scales, very simple.
When any one limit to one scale ,less choices them, same when some collect only one era or history period.
But yes as you said ,they complain and many back curtain will buy a lot of ones they said they not. Some will not ,others will.
I’m glad I collect all as I’m happy I can buy and support the hobby in that way.