Bill Nevins send this blast from the past high lights from one of my old lists and comment time. My thoughts are at the end.
Comment Time May 1990 List # 25
A big list containing 15 pages.
Spotlight:
1, Light blue Ben Hur chariot with yellow lattice and wheels. 2 black and 2 brown horses…………..$100.00
2. Atlantic Davy Crockett MIB….$10.00
3. MPC Matt Dillon character figure………$20.00
This must be the worst character figure done. When I was a young boy I used it for Frankenstein. ( Stad’s comment)
4. Black Cauldron figures. 45 mm made in England. Cereal giveaways.
Seven different ………$35.00
8. TV Guide Fall Preview issue.1960-61. Featured My 3 Sons and The Andy Griffith Show……………..$ 25.00
PLAYSETS:
FORT APACHE Partial set #59093C Sears.
Complete fort, 13 pioneers, 11 Indians.
Supply building missing flagpole…………$60.00
NEW REISSUES:
Marx ACW Cavalry and Caisson riders have arrived…..$1.00 Each.
(Note: The caisson is not on it’s way)
Andygard ACW reissues. 50 Union or CSA ……..$20.00
Wagon Reissue….The wagon is complete with 2 horse hitch and accessories.
This is the box type wagon you got in many Marx sets. The wagon is GRAY the horses are Brown and the top is TAN. With driver…….$20.00
COMMEN TIME
We are expecting the playsets in very soon. We will not take money until they are in our hands. We will send out a special flyer as soon as they are in.
PW Show Once again I will be there June 2, 1990. All of our English friends should stop by and ask me about American plastic. We hope to have some surprises with us.
One question I am always asked is why American wanted Accurate AWI figures in Blue and Red. The answer is that they would fit better with our Marx Revolutionary War sets. Marx and other figures were sold unpainted and mostly remained that way. Because this was how we were brought up, it stays with us till this day.
When a collector finds a painted figure his first thought is how to soak the paint off the figure using Mr. Muscle or Formula 409. He wishes to mix this figure in with his other figures. The original Accurate colors did not mix well, so an importer had the colors changed. There are collectors that prefer the original colors and some that like the cream, which is available over in England.
You could use the cream for French troops.
My Thoughts
The prices on some of the items in Comment Time May 1990 have gone down since I sold them back in 1990. The MPC Matt Dillon I just sold one for ten dollars and Marx Ben Hur chariots I think you get $75.00 if you are lucky. On the other hand the Atlantic Davy Crockett set if it 1/32 scale that you can get fifty dollars.
Accurate is a sad story. The owner’s name I believe is John Jeffries had a great idea with figures. The problem was he should have done the American Revolutionary as later set not as his first. There is not a lot of demand for American Revolutionary War. John had a lot of ideas and was telling people the different figures he was coming out with. I heard there were bad feelings between the investors and eventually led to the end of the company.
Interesting posts. I think I can recall seeing some of them when they originally appeared.
Too bad about Accurate. I can remember my own excitement when both their Rev. War plus American Civil War figures first came out. They were great sculpts, and went perfectly with Marx.
And as to that $100.00 original Marx chariot which declined in value to $75.00: At the 2014 OTSN, my roommate Bill Skinner sold two original Marx chariots and horses in near mint condition to Eric Koopmeiners for $25.00 each.
But one item which has definitely gone up are all those Atlantic 60mm sets. They have continued to increase in price and have really become quite expensive. When I first encountered those Atlantics I thought they were OK, but gradually I began to see real beauty in them. For awhile, until they became so expensive, I was buying everyone I could find at the shows.
When those first Accurate American Revolution figures came out (I got mine from Stone Castle) they came in either a blueish-gray color, or in a creme color. Then someone, who deserves our thanks for bringing the Brits to their senses, persuaded Accurate to release them in British Red and Colonial Blue. I suspect the hero was Bill Murphy of Excalibur (now morphed into Hobby Bunker).
It was an ad in the back of my America’s Civil War Magazine for the then-new Accurate ACW and ARW figures that got me back into collecting after many years of just holding to what I had. It was timely, too as I had just transisted from military to civilian life, completing my education and getting my first well-paying civilian job which gave me some discretionary income to buy the new sets.
One thing about those sets, they still sell and I can still go into the occasional hobby shop and see those sculpts selling every now and then when I get to a place that sells such stuff.
I even remember this comment time, Paul – I remember laughing at your comment about Marshall Dillon and my older brother and I had the same set. A great blast from the past.
There were a couple Atlantic sets that appealed to me, I wish I still had the Greek/Trojans and accessories, and their commandos always had an enthusiastic charm for some reason. But I could see the charm of them, they had some fantastic concepts and ideas in their sets. I got my younger brothers their “La Grande Battaglia” set (I think it was the “Great Battle”) for Christmas 1976 when I was in Germany, a 1/72 scale set. Of course I “reinforced” it with several boxes of Airfix Japanese Infantry and US Paratrooops. They say to this day it was one of their favorite Christmas presents – and that’s saying a lot next to Star Wars.
Thanks for some memories.
I had a chance once to buy Atlantic figures at closeout prices, but after carefully examining them I thought most sets looked kind of ridiculous and passed on them. I don’t recal they had any ancients which are nice looking sets, I just remember the Custer, Kit Carson and Davey Crocket sets. I guess we ll have that incident for which we could kick ourselves. This was back in the late 70’s early 80’s when ever their regular price was cheap.
Ed
The reason the Atlantic figures are in demand is the molds of most of the figures went to Iraq and as far as we can tell they were destroyed during Desert Storm II.
Does anyone else think it’s weird that toy figure molds would be sent to an Islamic country like Iraq? Doesn’t the Koran forbid the depiction of the human form in Islamic art? So why would making toy figures in Iraq be ok? Any opinions on this?
I thought the same thing when the deal was first done 20 plus years ago. The molds were stuck on a ship because of the Gulf War before they were shipped.
The reason the ships were at port may had been accidentally.During war many ships that were passing by and force to stop at ports because of the embargo during conflict ended stock in ports and some.
Included one from japan ended destroyed there.
It may had been the ship carry it was in same or similar situation and was intended not x Iraq but bound else.unfortunately got cut and forced to.port stop till able to go out.
Regarding Koran image.It has nothing to be with toys at all.
In Muslim countries there plenty small general stores selling cheap chinese and else toy figures bags.
I had personally sold to some toy soldiers collectors in ME.
And did a larger wholesale to a store owner in IRAN not long ago .With only issue was shipping that because of USPS laws he had to ship using a third country.
The law is regarding arts,inside temples imagery or else.
Iraq under Sadam Hussein was under the less strict main faction of musilm political wing too.
It will depend on the country. I had a gentleman in Saudi Arabia from the UK. I would have to send his packages as hobby items. One of them did get open and confiscated.
I had to then too, not see the reason was confiscated. But they do have fees to charges, so if item is not within custom described rules ;then they have right to confiscate it .
USPS has the (per country update rules ) and US costums exports rules listed.
I generally ask buyers what description he want me to put on item specific to avoid issues.
For example (“collectible”) are separated from toy- gift in most.
Another issue is when you describe as (single=1 ) item and there two or more, it piss off the mailing service country office receiving it as considering (false info)
So has to be very careful before send.
Turkey has more open rules, still they do too have issues.
I shipped to Argentina one item once and was confiscated too but later returned because they opened and realize it was a used toy and no new, so considered antique, not gift toy. Well that what the buyers told me.
So depend if guy working follow the law by books and been a pain or just pass.
I think most shipping restriction laws are made to rob money and not to make people happy.
My thoughts..
I have a pretty big collection of Atlantic western stuff that I got from a dealer named Gene who has been around as long as I can remember. He still is. I saw him at the Long Island show in November. We had a nice chat about the old days.
Anyway, I believe that Gene ended up with all the Atlantic from Polks warehouse when they went under. He was selling 60 mm boxes for 3 bucks each or 2 for 5 dollars.
He had the big suitcase sets for 10 bucks each, both 60 mm and HO. I remember spending a couple of hundred dollars, which was big back then.
Fast forward 20 years or so and I am at John Stengles house after a flood starts in his basement/storage room from a broken pipe. Several large cardboard boxes containing his 60 mm Atlantic stock are soaked and destroyed. John was pissed off and offered me the whole soggy mess for one price. I took it and doubled my collection even though I had to wash everything off. Lots of buffalo!
If you guys enjoy reading the old comment times, I’ll continue to post them. It’s fun to
look back at what the state of the hobby was, compared to now.
Let me know if you wish to see more.
I would enjoy seeing more.
Don
You will have to ask Bill to do the highlights and I will add comments. I am just amazed people what to hear from those old lists.
DEFINATELY!!! Love to read the old stuff. Thanks for doing it.
Bill
Gene was just one of many who got the Atlantic. I purchased from Gene and other sources It was lots of fun.
Hello Admin. Just browsing, when I saw your comments re: Atlantic 60mm. Do you know where or by whom I can purchase the 60mm Atlantic falling Indian horse? This fellow Gene, any idea how I can contact him? I was at the LI show, but I didn’t know about Atlantic figures then. You guys are great, and you have such large collections! You give great advise, and Toy Soldier collectors are the nicest folks I have dealt with, Carl
That may have been Gene Scala? Not sure how his name is spelt. At one time I tried to collect one set of each 1-32 Atlantic figure set made. I did not complete the collection, some sets were just too scarce. But I did end up with some real interesting ones. The WWII figures are generally smaller than the ancients, more like actual 54mm. They made a set of WWII Indian soldiers, possibly Sikhs, which are quite good, and the political sets are a really interesting and unusual subject matter for toys. The recent Castro set from Russia is the closest thing I’ve seen lately which compares.
No Gene Scalia was one of the two people that got the Marx warehouse.
Hi Guys. I was looking on the web for Atlantic 60mm western figures, when I navigated here. I am looking for the 60mm Atlantic falling Indian pony. I managed to acquire the Army horse, with rifle in scabbard sticking up on saddle. If anyone has the falling horse, or loose figures from the Custer set, I am interested. You have a very informative site, thanks for the info, Carl
Hi Bill. I have been reading your comments here for a while. I see that you had Atlantic figures from the west. If you still have it, are you interested in selling the 60mm falling Indian horse? I found the Cavalry horse with riffle scabbard sticking up vertically from Italy, and I hope to get the companion piece someday. Thanks for reading. Carl
Yes please to more stories!
I would like to see more Stad’s old lists and other sales lists and miscellaneous plastic literature ,that might be a nice feature ! I will also say I have excellent results using easy off on SOFT PLASTIC figures ( do not use on hard plastic ! )
For cleaning paint off hard plastic figures or other styrene models, save a glass pickle jar and fill it with brake fluid. Make sure the lid seals tight. Soak the figure in the fluid for a week or two, then carefully rub the softened paint off with a sponge or toothbrush. Soak the figure in water for a few days to dissipate the fluid odor then finish by washing the figure with soap and water then let dry.
yeah cool more Comments Times, I like history.
While we are reminiscing, I would like to see back issues of Stad’s “The Worlds of Plastic Figures” made available. Over 20 years ago when I was getting my son interested in toy soldiers, Stad had an “Intro to Plastic Soldiers” special. For a few bucks you received a random, but generous assortment of what was out there (no junk!) as well as a copy of the above mentioned magazine. The history is wonderful! My issue was after the 1994 OTSN, featuring a review of the yet-to-be released “Hallmark” Alamo Mexicans (they weren’t even called “Classic Toy Soldiers” yet). Also included was a review of Ron Barzso’s 2nd and latest playset, “The Battle of New Orleans.” Ron was pictured holding his Viking prototype. Needless to say, I was hooked and have attended every OTSN since. There’s some great history in those magazines. Also included was an article on the elusive Mauritius company.
I too looked forward to Stad’s list, as well as the Fun House list – now there you’ll find some premium prices that people paid.
I could not have gotten that list. I hadn’t decided to get (back) into toy soldier collecting yet, but I remember you mentioning your Matt Dillon figure story a few times.
I jumped on the big Atlantic figure closeout sales that were turning up everywhere in the mid-90’s. I remember getting grab bags that had all sorts of stuff like the big Medieval cannon and about 20 assorted figures for $8 a throw. A lot of figures were done in different colors than were normally seen in the full sets. I had German WWII soldiers in forest green, a decent tan and sky blue, for example. A friend picked a load up in Europe and then sold me half for a killer-bargain price. I took out all that I wanted and moved off the rest for what would be considered a gift now. I have my funny colored Germans and some red Soviets (red Reds! I love it!) to this day. Sold the Commandos, Bersaglieri, Paras and some of the (Italian) Infantry and Alpini off later. I don’t regret what I did. This hobby just isn’t about money for me. I let that happen with collecting Militaria and it ruined it for me. Whoever got the Ancients and Western stuff made out great. The other stuff went pretty cheap, too. I just hope it all has a good home.
Greg
Those figure bags of Atlantic figures were great. I got a big load from my very good friend Peter Bergner. Laurie and I were over for the German Plastic show and Peter offered me the bags at a Deutsche Mark ($.60) I said no but by the time I got back to the hotel I realized I goofed and called Peter. I took the figures and had him ship back. Once in the states I had my staff separate them. I still have a few figures and cannons still floating around.
I have mention several times on the Matt Dillon figure as Frankenstein. It has to be the worse Character figure ever made.
Can’t believe that Erwin hasn’t jumped in yet. I’m sure he has some good Atlantic info for us.
I actually have an Atlantic color catalog from way, way back. It’s spiral bound and very professionally done. It shows the contents of almost all of there sets and is broken down by Series numbers. This guy has a pretty good site, but it has not been updated in years.
http://www.atlantictoysoldiers.com/
Many of the Atlantic Apache Camp sets that Gene had did not contain the Apache Camp at all. Instead, almost every Apache camp box had Sioux Camp figures and Tents inside. Anyone know the answer to that one?
How about colors? Why such variations?
Atlantic is one company that I wish that I knew more about.
Atlantic is company I wish I knew more too. The weird colors came from Europe in bags on blister cards. hopefully we will find out more in the near future.
Bill.
Sorry ,I had not come as very busy but also pretty much as admin said.
Atlantic rarest colors were last distribution blister pack and bags.
Most x export to other countries.
The link you had post is old as u said.
According to one sourse the guy pass??
Now with atlantic as same with Dulcop as they were making toy soldier till after the toy soldier era and incredible very are still abundant in many houses in italy.They are by many italian considered not of much value but many had realize we and other European does.So they look x then as profit.
If u google on ebay.U will notice many italian seller list figures made by nardi,co ma,xiroplasto,dulcop and others under generic Atlantic brand!
That is to bring our attention as well here many does w Marx.
As far sets in the 1.30scale which is pretty much Atlantic scale in most.All is known in what they did as far I’m awere of.
The hardest are the few last year released.
1:30 scale armor.(3 models as far I know)
The 88 mm cannon(much better that Marx and Ideal).I have them.
And the space large robots,aliens,charater figures plus space ships.I have but space ships.
The link u post is base in the two main company wholesale retail catalog they send to store owners x then to order and replineshed.The catalogs are easy to find in.ebay too under atlantic catalog search and they pup up often.
It has the main stores code sets line list and series.
However towards end of company,many repacking were permit to either clearance and clean overstock or else.
I will get few more info x you guys in a time.
In 2008 a book promoted by two brothers with history of the main italian companies was suppose to be edited.
But a mistery surrounded both editor and book and I don’t know what happen after.
Last in the hanging western set as well custer last stand the was a assortment distribution problem when feeling box because the mold way it were done.
Split in 4 molds cavity.That is been explained by italians collectors in a Italian blog I conect offten.
X now all.I can say.
Best
Three years ago, at the Michigan Toy Soldier Show, John Stengel Jr. made the comment, to a group of us, that the newest big demand was for 60mm Atlantic figures, especially, as always, MIB boxed sets.
Don
The demand happen when people found the molds were destroyed. They are fun pieces.
My Outlaws and Sheriffs set with box, complete with hanging guy & guy dragged by horse is one of my favorites. Got it for a good price years ago. I just wish they were 54 mm to fit in better with Marx figures. The figures are pretty large even for 60 mm.
Does the hanging guy have his head turned sideways smiling at the camera?
LOL – one of my biggest gripes with Atlantic – and ESCI figures – one of the reasons I could never warm to them.
I really like the Accurate AWI and ACW sets. The sculpting is great and they do fit very well with the Marx figures of those periods. I think I have most if not all of them. One question, what is the connection with Accurate and Imex? The sculpting is very, very similar, as are the colors. Did Imex obtain the Accurate molds or use the same artists to sculpt their figures? With Marx, Accurate, and Imex one can do a really good set up with a nice variety of poses for ACW and AWI periods. I don’t mind mixing Blue, Red, Blueish grey, and Cream colors for an AWI set up as many regiments did have different colored uniforms back in the day.
I remember reading that the sculptor for Accurate figures was the same used for the Matchbox figures. Does this sound familiar? I think I read it in PFPC when the Accurate figures first came out.
The sculptor’s last name was Farmer. If he was interested in what he was doing his work was good.
The Accurate colors story is an interesting one. The 4 main people involved were Bill Murphy
of Excalibur, John Stengle the MarxMan, Jamie Delson of TSC and Al Stankiwietz of ATS.
Bill Murphy was the original importer and US distributor. The original color were Blue/Gray for the British and Medium Gray for the Patriots. US collectors were unhappy with the original colors and wanted matching Marx colors.
Bill convinces Accurate to run the Patriots in Blue and the British in Red. When the second run starts, one of the mold cavities is damaged and pulled from the line. That figure is the British soldier biting a cartridge
He is replaced by a soldier standing legs apart, musket held at arms length with the butt on the ground.
The biting cartridge figure is usually only found in the original blue/gray color. I have a couple in Red, but
they are uncommon and were only in production for a very short run.
After this, reverse colors begin to appear. I believe that Murphy was also behind this.
Here’s where the story gets cloudy. There was a dispute of some sort and it ended up the ATS was allowed to import figures in a light tan color. I have heard two versions of this. One, was that the European collectors were unhappy because in Europe they paint their figures and they wanted a neutral color plastic to start with.
The other was that they wanted a light color (white) to match French forces.. Remember that the “Last of the Mohicans” movie was released in 1992 right in the middle of this. French soldiers were in demand.
John Stengle, through his contacts in England, enters the picture and runs the SERIES TWO British in a stunningly beautiful blue colored plastic. He also runs the SERIES TWO militia in a rich red brown. Both colors are run from a high grade, virgin plastic with a vivid color content. This is a limited run and quickly disappears. In my opinion, these are the best Accurate colors. John told me that he wanted the blue to match the striking UNION BLUE that some of the Marx Civil War figures came in. He chose the red brown for the figures so that they could be used in an Alamo scene.
Jamie Delson of TSC acquires the rights to the Accurate molds and runs the AWI, ACW and Knights in every color you can think of, including reverse colors. These are run in a lesser quality plastic and some of the colors end up looking almost translucent.
In Europe, Accurate goes belly up and Revelle ends up with them. They put out the British in TAN and the Patriots in GRAY. The Revell sets only contain one of each pose, rather than the 20 that the original boxes had.
And finally IMEX gets involved and reissues the AWI series in crappy, regrind plastic. The plastic is stiff and easily broken and the colors are RED (actually looks ORANGE) for the British and GRAY for the Militia.
OK. This is the story as far as I know it from talking to all 4 of the participants. Anyone have anything to add or correct? Some of this was discussed 20 years ago, so my memory may be wrong
Bill, thanks for an informative history! Does anyone know who owns the molds now? Imex seems to have the Revolutionary War and maybe the Civil War. What about the medieval figures? Is there any chance we might see the Revolutionary War, Civil War and medieval figures again in a decent plastic? I know Imex seems determined to keep doing the hard plastic to facilitate painting – but what about the knights, which I would love to see available again.
All this information from Bill Nevins is interesting. I remember now the earliest Colonials were gray, not cream. Yes, Bill Murphy and Marxman John Stengel Sr. definitely improved things for the hobby.
I don’t think I would dignify the plastic Imex started using by calling it “hard plastic”. The terms I think would be most descriptive is “cheap, stiff, crappy”. Elastolin and Starlux used “hard plastic”, and it was nothing like the junk that Imex, after a promising start, reverted to.
I’m still upset when I think of the beautiful Zorro/Alamo beautiful foot and mounted figures Imex had sculpted, which Imex then totally ruined with the cheapest, crappiest plastic they could find —- probably the same type of plastic used for the prizes in boxes of Cracker Jacks. You have to wonder if Imex thought nobody would notice.
I probably anxiously awaited those lancers for 2 years, maybe more. I’m afraid to take them out of the box for fear they will break, I’m not even sure I took them all off the sprues. Nicely done figures, but the plastic is like, ugh. There is a long list of disappointments in this hobby.
I didn’t even bother with the 1/32 Mexicans after receiving a box of their second set of ACW Confederate figures with about half the figures broken before they even got out of the box. I sent an e-mail to them about the plastic worded in what I hoped was a polite and helpful way and received a curt – if not rude response. After that I was done with them.
Earlier, I bought their Mexican series in 1/72 scale – painted them on the sprue as French Napoleonics and stored them. About a year later when I brought them out I was shocked (shouldn’t have been) at the breakage. I bought three four gun batteries worth of their Mexican Arty – not a single wheel was left on a carriage.
Talk about committing business suicide… I write this in hopes maybe someone will read it who can do something – I had such high hopes for IMEX.
By the Way: as far as the Imex/Accurate/Revell connection – I was under the impression, either by something I read or just assumption (always dangerous) that somehow Imex got the molds or the US rights to the old Accurate/Revell molds. I’ve seen Revell issues recently so don’t know if that’s old stuff being sold (and resold) on Ebay or new issue off the old molds.
Thanks Bill Nevins for the information. I am going to have to dig out all of my Accurate, Imex, and Revel boxes and do some comparisons on plastic type and colors to compare to your excellent rundown on the companies. I too was disappointed with the Imex series two confederates, kind of skinny and not so good plastic. I did notice there are some reverse colors from Imex, but I don’t think they did that to all of the poses. I like the Imex artillery ACW sets, but OH those blue horses!!!
Yes, Larry, there was nothing wrong at all with the early Imex ACW artillery sets, other than, as you mentioned, those dark blue horses. Little did we know that was actually the high point of Imex plastic figure production, and everything began to decline after that high point.
Wayne W.’s description of Imex’s “business suicide” — right before our very eyes — is pretty accurate. After the Mexican Mounted Lancers fiasco, I never looked at any Imex product again.
Larry T, John Stengle ran most of the Imex ACW sculpts in all sorts of colors.
Not the Accurate sculpts, just the Imex sculpts. I have them in everything from Georgia Peach to Marx Dark Gray. I happened to be there on the day when the test shots arrived and scooped up as many as I could. John was always good about sharing tests shots and odd colors with me.
I know that out of the ten test colors, he ended up running maybe 5 or 6 of the colors
and sold them in bagged sets. He did reverse colors on everything also.
Last time I was at John’s home, I loaded up on these odd colors because he was running out of them and he told me point blank that it was too expensive to ever run them again.
I had a really great relationship with John Sr.
I wish that he was in better health. I miss our “soldier time” together.
Ahh, John Stengel. I remember the first Texas show, my original flight got cancelled, so I had to fly out the next day and arrived in San Antonio just before the party at Mad Dogs, we rushed over there once we checked into our room and managed to catch the tail end of the party. Anyway, me and John were the last two to leave, we stayed and had more beers after everyone else had left. When we finally left half in the bag we realized that neither one of us knew the way back to our motels. I managed to remember bits and pices of our walk to Mad Dogs and eventually got us back to the motel in one piece. It was quite an adventure, one that neither of us will soon forget.