Lod Enterprise Chariot Update
We have heard from Ken Ciak on Trojan War project. As you know the next item from him is chariots for both sides. Ken also gave us an update as well. Here is what he said
Good evening Paul …. How is everything going for you? I hope the winter season has treated you well. We have been in the mid to high 30’s in Wisconsin so spring is tempting us with mild weather.
I want to share a few pictures and updates on what is going on. The production samples arrived from the factory and we are now moving towards creating the prototypes. Here are a couple of pictures of the samples.
The second figure set will debut at the Chicago Toy Soldier Show (re-branding of OTSN) in September.
Trojan Wall Update
In addition, the Walls of Troy have been very well received and selling at a rapid pace throughout the United States and around the world. I could not be more pleased with the early success of the tower, wall, and gate. Here are a couple of photos of the Walls of Troy ….
The 25th of February marks the one year anniversary of LOD Enterprises becoming a company. While it was another six months before the actual products arrived, it has been a rewarding first year and one where I have enjoyed the process and the opportunity to meet many wonderful people whether via e-mail, this forum, or at a trade show. I am just as excited about year two and appreciate all of the support that you and your fans have provided me.
Thanks and talk with you soon,
Ken Ciak
The chariots will be a welcome addition to your ancient armies. It was important part of many armies up iron age when horses were bred larger to be used as cavalry. Some of the plastic toy soldier companies that made chariots were Marx, Britains, Reamsa amd Atlantic.
Ken,
Congratulations on your first year in business !
Looking at your new photos I would like to comment on the chariot horses, I think that the horses would be better to be moving forward or are you offering various options for them.
The second man in the pair with the round top hat wielding the sword over his head is left handed, I have a problem with left handed figures as I don’t believe it is very common, unless of course you have historical details of soldiers of this group being mainly left handed.
Thanks for adding new plastic toy soldiers to our armies.
Best regards,
Les
Very nice figures and chariot. With the walls and chariots this is shaping up to be an awesome playset. Next character figures?
Congratulations on your new figures & the success of your company. They are a very nice addition to the toy soldier market.
I do agree with Les that left handed figures are rare.
Nice figures anyway.
My personal opinion.
I like all ,very nice. The horses as far I can see from small pictures could be easy convert in to running poses .Will lie to see more close up of it.
I notice art design is strongly base in last movie. Good choice as it was done using last excavation data research of what could had been classic Homer Troy
Left handle is not such a” minority”, over 15 % percent of today register students in US School are left handle. According to resent school studies.
In western civilization :The right hand enforcement use during early childhood development education start right with classic period and then Christianity took over as part of dogma in standard education; derivate from the left hand used primary as lavatory in classic Roman traditions.
In ancient bronze and classic era there plenty illustration showing then been left with weapons in antique vases and early medieval illustration as well too. However much less than right of course.
In eastern it was not any priority at what to use during teaching till Islam took ever teaching. Trojans were Ionians with many eastern cultures influences as situated in eastern Asia minor .They barely use any early hoplite and of course massive front phalanx formation in battle.Relating more in light cavalry, chariots, archers , light infantry .All adapted from most east people military tactics.
There for the need to carry shield in left and weapon in right to accommodate hoplite type formation and later phalanx drill was not enforced.
Few later Greek classic era vases depicting the siege of Troy portrait both foes with same cultural (Greek) style classic armor style/clothing as were done/designed centuries later by Greeks, not the Trojans.
Resent discovery made in turkey(where actual Troy) city was located had demonstrated the opposite with huge differences between both nations. Later movie Troy did the best close possible to demonstrate differences.
Contrary as years ago, today’s education let students choose and decide what hand to use instead to enforce the right hand rules used during few centuries in education.
We often see a person using his left and attributed is left handed immediately. But he/she could be a cross dominance handed person that are about 30% of human population.
On the figure or any done left I will applaud as new, nice pose and welcome.
If pose would had been done for battle line drill formation of course will be wrong, but it is not neither depict they type of soldier.
Thanks x the hard work and introduction of beautiful line in the hobby.
Thanks for the history lesson, I knew someone would know 🙂
To me 15% of the population in any country is a minority ,as is 30% that you state. So I’ll stick to my comment.
I have noted many nicely sculpted figures in recent years that are no good for me because they are left handed, especially those using rifles, however this is from a conversion point of view as there are more parts available from right handed figures. There must be a lot of left handed sculptors out there :))
To my eye it also looks odd if they are in formation and they are all left handed.
On the horse front ,I think they look more like rearing horses or just about to pull the chariot than actively moving forward. I would prefer a moving forward pose for a battle formation.
Looking forward to seeing the production figures.
Les; of course are minority for you and any as 15 or 30 are less than 100.But just as not that bold as not having any represented with sword and shield in ancient time. If an a force of 100 are 10/15 lefty and they use it, some how figures in toy need to show it. Atlantic,Jecsan did too.
I agree in firing line formation, it was against practicing and training specially in pre 1915 military drill training. So if figures has been done lefty, either could be used as impaired to used other right hand , tire , wounded or a lefty going off training in battle. Also in war such revolution and civil war when training in many units was poor it could had happen.
In pre WW2 training US infantry manual show the handling as right hand; but how many in the field did use the left either because lefty,wounded,tire or cross dominance!?
The ancient Trojan figure pose in particular is charging, out of battle line formation complete .Beside as I explain Trojans barely used hoplite classic Greek line spear formation .They used very like Persian with more missiles .Resent excavation found two few years back (homer troy period) important warriors burials site . Both showed then with very small bronze shield very different to those of European Hellenic culture. Painting showed then in non Greek classic clothing but Assyrian type most like .That is my main point here ,to emphasis in the difference of misconception used during centuries base in Homer and centuries later description of Trojans.
At Homer writings and wrong represented in three films. The main combats are described as:
The Trojans charge first the Greek at beach head in horses and fast running light infantry raining arrows towards their not organized (Greeks disembarking forces)Before the Greeks could form their battle line hoplite formation . Thanks to Achilles and his forces the landing is saved because they used close shield triangular formation to repulse the attack.After that most action was Trojans in walls, and Greeks assaulting the walls with few chariots duels outside during expand of about 9 years according to Homer.
On the horses I Agree with you. They are in stand or repulsing defensive poses ,but if look looking only pic it appear the bottom of both forward legs could be cut lose and lower to put then in charging pose maybe? I can see very well and only one hose side showed.
In general the design of these figures are one of the most historical accurate base in resent discoveries of the era.
Excellent collection addition and congrats to all involved.
Very Nice Ken !
Since Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar were both left-handed, I can live with a few left-handed Greeks and Trojans among my figures. Google “famous left handed persons”, and you will be surprised how many well-known personages, from all walks of life, are on the list. Choose the “Miscellaneous” tab, and you’ll see where Alexander and Caesar appear.
As to the chariot horses, I myself like their dramatic poses, which to me connote a sensation of visual kinetic forward movement, without making them look like they’re in a Ben Hur coliseum chariot race
I should mention that I ordered and received LOD’s entire front wall set (3-piece gate towers, 2 walls, and 2 end towers. The whole assembly creates a massive, beautiful display. It even inspired me to pull out my Brad Pitt “Troy” DVD, and rewatch the whole spectacle.
And the color appear to be done matching Atlantic colors in the Chariot!?
I like to add from homer is the less action parts described, the Iliad does not mention the beginning of war but only in few verse of explanation.
It only talk about the last year of war and not included Troy destruction at all.
The destruction of Troy and Troy horse Legends are taken only from Little Iliad Poems translation attributed to Leshers and The destruction of Troy from Arctinus.
Both part of entire Epic Cycles poems books that are the most complex and complete attributed sources of the war extracted from fragments founds.
Interesting article on left handedness: http://facts.randomhistory.com/facts-about-left-handedness.html
Yep, nice article ,too much of left hand was biased by religious teaching and wrong thoughts.
Achilles by two account is described as either left or able to use both hands equally.
Any how we know their are plenty out there and yes they had fought as warriors in history and as I mention not long ago, even japan samurais created various school that used the left hand first for this reason. I post the links no long ago.
Miyamoto Musashi introduced the use of both hand and switch technique using the large and shorts swords during combat.
Saitō Hajime was one of the last famous samurai using the technique.
Yoshio Sugino swords master instructor for most of Akira Kurosawa films was trained and teaches the use of both hand.
Films such as Johimo and Sanjuro shows the main character using the left hand contrary to most common uses of right as main directed of the later Katana sword swords.
To the classic period Greeks the story of the Trojan wars are similar to the stories of King Arthur were to Mediaeval Europe.
The classic era Greeks depicted warriors such as Achillies in the armour of their own period, much the same way Arthur and his knights are shown in many illustrative depictions (and films) in 15th Century plate armour.
The LOD series and the ATLANTIC Trojans get it right
Indeed Peter.
I meant to comment that the new figures themselves (the chariot drivers and riders) are also, I think, very well sculpted.
Permit me to make one last appeal on the final colors. Ken has previously said he is leaning toward tan or beige BECAUSE THOSE ARE GOOD BASE COLORS FOR THOSE WHO PAINT THEIR FIGURES.
But what about those of us, always in the majority here in the U.S., who DON’T paint our figures? Wouldn’t we prefer something a little more colorful and flashy for our BRONZE AGE figures than a plain old tan? And I therefore wish Ken would consider a stronger, more colorful choice than plain old tan — maybe something along the lines of the brilliant crimson, silver, and bronze that Conte used to such good effect for his Spartans.
For the original creative idea of a Trojan War playset, we need something equally creative in color selection —- something more than a mediocre plain-Jane color choice of tan or gray.
Don.I think ,they will do your thought as soldiers are in that range colors more or less
By the way if check Lod Site I think you can see two more angle pic of the chariots.
Either colors is fine x me.Figures and line are more than welcome to me and very happy in work,sculpture,design,poses,set prices and thematic.
I would think a “Lefty” firing a standard musket would really get a facefull of flash and smoke eh unless he held it well away from his face and in a Firing Line careful aim wasn’t too worried about.
After these great chariots, I’m looking forward to some great character figures (Hector, Achilles, Ajax, Paris, Ulysesses, Priam, Agamemmnon —- maybe even Helen herself. Then an actual Trojan Horse, and then maybe some add-on Trojan and Greek spearmen and archers. I’ve got high hopes for this whole project.
Well I wish too!!
But for now I got most them from Dragon can do series done years ago with many of Troy base character poses in pretty much close/same scale. I will dig them and compere, I hope they match!.
A big Trojan horse and large castle/walls playset was done no long ago ,will build and post pic x you guys too see. It was sold limited around ,I mange got one with a large Egyptian temple too.
I would very much like for you to post that, Erwin. Thanks.
Don you got it. I will ,give me a couple day as is handy
I thought you guys saw it already. No a playmobil thing at all.
It has a huge Trojan hollow plastic nice horse over base with small wheels and very city tall walls with gate and assault tower.
The temple is Egyptian with many columns and statues and inner center sacred temple surrounded by decorated walls. All plastic sold in large boxes.
I think late 90’s or early 2000.
Don and Erwin
I have the Trojan Horse playset in the basement. The figures were a Playmobil type of figure. I have to see if everything is there. FAO Schwartz in Las Vegas sold a Trojan horse that held a T Shirt years ago. I don’t know if the store is still there. I picked up at U.S. Toy Store an Egyptian wall they closed it out at $.50.
You see partial part of set mix with others but show the horse in this link from TSC
http://www.toysoldierco.com/Plastic-Toy-Soldiers/Playsets/Hand-Painted-Trojan-War-Playset—limited-edition-/Product.aspx?ProductID=15657&DeptID=7&&
But I will build all three as the sets also have a large Viking ship too .
yes figures were playmobil type stile wile the items were not at all!!Very interesting.
Stevens Hobby distributed all three x few years only, then disappear.
I will set all nice with figures x pics
Funny admin,that is where I have mine too. In the basement.But I bough mine from hobby and school supply store.
The figures a give away..
I heard somewhere once that Harold Goodwins Housecarls were taught to fight left handed. I guess that makes sense they would going against the sword rather than the shield. Of course I think I heard it on the History Channel, so take that with a grain of salt.
ed, the comment was base in non historical relevance. I heard it too ,they guy who mentioned in a program long ago is a self proclaimed weapon master expert that is hire to talk many non sense. After short research I discovery the following.
Harords Housecards(many were Danish, in fact armed and skillful in double hand long axes. The Saxons Housecards carry most time a long sword with a shallow groove running along the blade on both sides to make it lighter. It was used as two hand.
First line carry long shield to create a holding line wile others with long axes and swords come often out to strike and retreat back the shield formation to were down the attackers. They were mercenaries high paid of many early medieval kingdoms.
So that would had been irrelevant.
Another that are mention as left handed training are highland border Scottish Clan
The Kerrs .This is associated because one castles was build with doors and entrances with handle in opposite(lefty ) way among others.
From there assumption was that were skillful trained in left hand combat. But not real strong history facts proof that.
Hello everyone ~ first and foremost, thank you for all of the comments and kind words on the figure sets, both current and upcoming editions. I do appreciate thecommentary on left-handed figures. As a lefty, I am biased towards them though in this instance it was a coincidence. I do like that one of the ten poses between sets 1 and 2 is a lefty (the charioteers are not included based on their stances. We can say they are ambidextrous).
The horses are positioned to be rearing or pulling up as they carry a warrior to the battlefront. Most of the heroes in the Iliad were delivered by chariot to face their nemesis (Diomedes, Achilles, Hector, and others). I am attempting to convey the horses and how they would react to being on the fringe or middle of a battlefront with the clamor of men, weapons, and armor engaged in close quarters.
The figures will be the same colors as the first figure set – the Trojans in blue and the Greeks in creme. The Greeks are the two figures on the left in the photo above. They have feather helmets much like the sea people of that era. The Trojan with spear will have a plume on his helmet (the production model had a thin one that did not successfully make the journey from factory to photo shoot). The color of the chariots and horses both received a lot of attention with my informal poll in December (thank you to many of you for weighing in) and a final decision has not been made.
As for the character figures and even the mention of the Trojan Horse, I think Don has snuck a peak at the marketing/business plan for LOD Enterprises. You identified 7 of the 8 figures on the docket for the character series (Figure Set 3) and I am working to see if we can have a Trojan Horse ready for the show in Chicago this fall.
Once again, I appreciate all of the feedback and comments. The feedback on the accuracy of the armor and armaments for this era is tremendous. We worked hard to try and follow both the historical evidence that is available along with maintaining the vibe from Homer’s classic story.
Thank you again,
Ken Ciak
Ken
Thank you for the update and the hints of the future.
Ken, totally excited about this series. The updates are greatly appreciated.
Thanks Ken and very happy all going ahead as planned.And yes as I mention before u are great in historical research to do these figures and items.Well done.Congrats!!!
Ken, at the risk of harping on this subject to death, I think that if the charioteers are going to be in their original Trojan blue and Greek creme, then I actually believe a tan-colored chariot and horses would look quite good.
I promise this is the last time I’m going blab my opinion to you on upcoming chariot colors.
Hello Don ~ I love the feedback and opinions. So please always keep them coming.
On a related note to the thread, I was reading an article on Achilles and there was a mention of a warrior named Asteropaeus of Paeonia. He confronts Achilles in Book 21 of the Iliad. He is referenced as ambidextrous and throws two spears at the Greek hero drawing blood with one of them. He does not, however, have the favor of the Gods and Achilles dispatches him with a sword immediately thereafter. His claim to fame does appear to be his ability to use a weapon with his left hand (as well as his right).